Engineering Origin of a Common Phrase?

Advert

New Replies

Report Bug

Help/FAQs

Engineering Origin of a Common Phrase?

This topic has 87 replies, 39 voices, and was last updated 3 June 2016 at 18:55 by Gordon Brown 1.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 88 total)

1 2 3 4 →

Author

Posts
28 May 2016 at 13:13 #240630
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
There are lots of examples in ordinary English of technical jargon entering the language. As a "loose cannon" I might "go nuclear", "let off steam", "tune in", be "between the devil and the deep blue sea", or commit myself "lock, stock and barrel".

Yesterday I was aligning my milling machine ready to drill an accurately placed hole. My wobbler was spinning at 2400rpm when I bumped it causing the ball mounted pin to whiz across my garage and disappear into a pile of junk.

After a fruitless search I lost my temper and walked off the job.

Calming down later I realised that I had "thrown a wobbler" in two senses of the phrase!

Does anyone "have the bandwidth" to tell me if the phrase "throwing a wobbler" has an engineering origin or not? Are there any other examples, perhaps "flying off the handle"?

Thanks,

Dave
Advert

28 May 2016 at 13:13 #24569
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
28 May 2016 at 13:19 #240631
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
"Balls Out" has its origins in the fact that governor balls swing out as the speed of an engine increases
28 May 2016 at 13:27 #240632
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
Something to do with gyroscopes not being balanced properly & wobbling out of true… 'throwing a wobbler'…?

I know 'going off half cocked' stems from in the heat of battle; if the old muskets weren't fully cocked after loading ( always loaded at 'half cock' then fully cocked for firing &nbsp the resultant discharge didn't have its full charge ignited, the flint barely capable of creating enough sparks in the frizzen pan to ignite the main charge…

George.
28 May 2016 at 13:37 #240634
Muzzer
Participant
@muzzer
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 28/05/2016 13:13:22:

Yesterday I was aligning my milling machine ready to drill an accurately placed hole. My wobbler was spinning at 2400rpm when I bumped it causing the ball mounted pin to whiz across my garage and disappear into a pile of junk.

Use an edge finder instead of a wobbler. They don't flail about as the end is captive and has limited movement. This is your opportunity to change!

You probably know how to use an edge finder already but here's another video on how they work.

Available from most sources. Arc Euro even give an explanation how to use them.
28 May 2016 at 13:44 #240635
Bernard Wright
Participant
@bernardwright25932
Surely it's a 'wiggler' not a wobbler…. just saying

Bernard.
28 May 2016 at 14:06 #240637
Peter Hall
Participant
@peterhall61789
Not a wobbler, but if you slip whilst dismantling motorcycle switchgear and let the small spring fly loose, that's called a pingf*ckit, 'cos that's the sound you'll hear as it disappears into the darkest recesses of the workshop.

Pete
28 May 2016 at 14:26 #240639
John Fielding
Participant
@johnfielding34086
How about the saying "a black art".

I know where it came from but how many others know its origin?

Incidentally a lot of the common sayings today are from Shakespeare's plays.
28 May 2016 at 14:45 #240641
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
Posted by Bernard Wright on 28/05/2016 13:44:58:

Surely it's a 'wiggler' not a wobbler…. just saying

Bernard.

Hi Bernard,

You just gave me a mild panic attack! It got worse when I tried to prove I knew what I was talking about. Finding nothing but "wigglers" in my various reference books, I was convinced I'd blown a gasket and had somehow imagined the stupid thing was called a wobbler.

Thankfully Chronos came to the rescue. Between them and a stiff sherry I'm feeling better now!

More good news – the missing wobbler pin has been found. Nowhere near where I thought it landed.

Cheers,

Dave
28 May 2016 at 15:16 #240647
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
Posted by Muzzer on 28/05/2016 13:37:30:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 28/05/2016 13:13:22:

Yesterday I was aligning my milling machine ready to drill an accurately placed hole. My wobbler was spinning at 2400rpm when I bumped it causing the ball mounted pin to whiz across my garage and disappear into a pile of junk.

Use an edge finder instead of a wobbler. They don't flail about as the end is captive and has limited movement. This is your opportunity to change!

You probably know how to use an edge finder already but here's another video on how they work.

Available from most sources. Arc Euro even give an explanation how to use them.

Thanks Muzzer – good advice as always.

I didn't say so in the post, but the point I was aligning was on a 100mm diameter circular plate held by a rotary table. I tried using an edge finder to locate "North" and "West" on the plate but found it difficult to judge when the edge finder was truly at the farthest point on the circle. I admit I gave up too easily, and was left wondering if I'd missed a trick. Is an edge-finder a good tool for this?

I'm a self taught machinist and quite often end up kicking myself when I find out how the experienced chaps do things.

Thanks,

Dave
28 May 2016 at 17:14 #240668
bricky
Participant
@bricky
The term cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey,originates from when warships stored canonballs iniron monkeys on deck.The iron rusted and the two were stuck together.Making the monkeys from brass solved the rusting problem but in freezing conditions the brass contracted and popped the balls off.

Frank
28 May 2016 at 17:32 #240671
John C
Participant
@johnc47954
Not model engineering, although maybe heavy engineering, but one of my favourites is 'throw a track'. This is from the armoured cavalryman's vocabulary and refers to a bad thing that happens to a tracked vehicle such as a tank. But I like the way it can be applied to any event that does not go as planned, or to the mental state of the poor unfortunate to whom the bad event has just happened!

John
28 May 2016 at 20:29 #240684
duncan webster 1
Participant
@duncanwebster1
Someone will shoot me down over this, but I'm not sure an edge finder or wobbler works on a convex surface. As soon as it moves ever so slightly off centre, it will lose contact and so not 'flick'. An electronic one would work, I just use a bright light behind and move the tool until there is no gap. It's surprising how repeatable this is. If using an endmill you need to rotate the tool slightly to get contact at full diameter, it's obvious when you're actually doing it, not easy to describe
28 May 2016 at 20:44 #240686
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
My electronic edge finder works on concave and convex surfaces, just lights up when it touches the surface

Use it all the time to find ctr of circles – touch approx north and zero the dial, move y-axis only and touch approx south and half the distance. As this is a cord of the circle the half way point will be on ctr line. Repeat for east/West and you have the middle of your circle without worrying if you touched on teh exact extream of the edges.
28 May 2016 at 21:37 #240693
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
Posted by JasonB on 28/05/2016 20:44:28:

My electronic edge finder works on concave and convex surfaces, just lights up when it touches the surface

Use it all the time to find ctr of circles – touch approx north and zero the dial, move y-axis only and touch approx south and half the distance. As this is a cord of the circle the half way point will be on ctr line. Repeat for east/West and you have the middle of your circle without worrying if you touched on teh exact extream of the edges.

Jason strikes again! I didn't realise that it's not necessary to find true North and true west. Of course half the chord must lie on the centre line. I can't wait to try it!

How about "Nose to the Grindstone", "hammered" and "screwed up"?

Thanks again guys,

Dave
28 May 2016 at 21:38 #240695
Eugene
Participant
@eugene
"Fast and loose" must be the most obvious (or not if you don't know the derivation.) Or "a screw loose".

"Straight as a gun barrel" was common usage when I was a yoof, but that was in industrial Birmingham so maybe it wasn't current elsewhere. Another phrase from those days "He doesn't know if his a**e is drilled bored or countersunk" I still hear from time to time … Boris Johnson take note!

"Only firing on three cylinders" is common enough as is "Nose to the grindstone". I've seen the balls off a brass monkey explanation before and don't believe it.

Eug
28 May 2016 at 23:13 #240706
Robbo
Participant
@robbo
"Strike while the iron is hot" – doesn't refer to a golf club!
28 May 2016 at 23:48 #240708
Enough!
Participant
@enough
Posted by duncan webster on 28/05/2016 20:29:37:

An electronic one would work,

The electronic (well, electrical) type with a deflectable ball on the end works quite nicely in this situation and can be used whether the part is mounted horizontally or vertically but is very useful when the circular section is vertical (e.g. a horizontal round bar). Just feed backwards and forwards in the appropriate axis (in this case the z-axis …. use it like a drilling machine) while moving the part towards the centre finder until it just beeps.
28 May 2016 at 23:59 #240710
Nick_G
Participant
@nick_g
Posted by JasonB on 28/05/2016 13:19:02:

"Balls Out" has its origins in the fact that governor balls swing out as the speed of an engine increases

.

So nothing to do with secret inauguration ceremony into the Masons after all then.

Nick
29 May 2016 at 07:22 #240718
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
So that is what ~~you~~ they hide behind those little aprons then Nick When you have put it away what about an update on the Hoglet

Bandersnatch my electronic finder has a 0.200" dia parallel end so don't even need to move it up and down when used against a horizontal round bar like you do with the ball ended ones
29 May 2016 at 08:39 #240723
Jon Gibbs
Participant
@jongibbs59756
I always thought that "fast and loose" and "knocking off time" came from the same source and it certainly sounds a pretty good origin but "fast and loose" was used by Shakespeare in King John a few years before line-shaft machinery…

KING PHILIP: Heaven knows, they were besmear'd and over-stain'd with slaughter's pencil, where revenge did paint the fearful difference of incensed kings: And shall these hands, so lately purged of blood, so newly join'd in love, so strong in both, unyoke this seizure and this kind regreet? Play fast and loose with faith? So jest with heaven…

So, maybe it was reinvented.

Jon
29 May 2016 at 09:35 #240727
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Wobble –

A German word first used in English in the mid 17th century. Wobble is related to wave (Old English) andwaver (Middle English) which come from Old Norse, and until the mid 19th century was generally spelledwabble. To throw a wobbly is to have a fit of temper or panic. This is a recent expression recorded only from the 1960s, first of all in New Zealand, although throw a wobbler appears in the 1930s, in a US dictionary of underworld and prison slang. Wave did not come to be used for hair until the mid 19th century and the expression to make waves dates only from the 1960s. Mexican wave describing a wavelike effect when spectators stand, raise their arms, and sit again in successive crowd sections, originated at the World Cup football competition held in Mexico City in 1986.

John

–
29 May 2016 at 09:47 #240729
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
'Twas in a verse the bard once penned

At play with stick and noose

A tricky ploy to fool a friend?

A game called "fast and loose"
29 May 2016 at 10:04 #240731
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Fast & loose can also refer to flat belt pullies, a fast drive pully fixed to the shaft with a loose pully next to it that spins on te shaft so the belt can be moved from one to another when power is required or not
29 May 2016 at 10:34 #240738
Nick_G
Participant
@nick_g
.

With Britain (at one time) being a sea fairing nation there are dozens of terms that have their origins originally from nautical sources in the language.

One being 'Two sheets to the wind' when somebody has consumed lots of alcohol.

A sheet is the name given to the rope that holds the sail taught. There are 2 of them, port and starboard with only one on them taught at any one time depending upon which tack the ship is on. Upon the ship changing tack the tight one is made slack and as the ship transends through its heading the other is pulled tight.

For a short time during this transition both of these sheets (ropes) are facing into the wind. The sail they are attached to during this period flops and waves about in a semi uncontrolled way. ……….. A bit like someone who has had too many scoupes of beer. (or maybe rum)

Nick
Author

Posts