WM 180 Info

[Geoffrey FairhurstParticipant @geoffreyfairhurst38361]

I am considering buying a WM 180 as my first lathe.I wonder if any WM180 owners can answer any of the queries below.

How many change gears for screwcutting are supplied with a new machine, Metric or/and Imperial,and are these gears the same as the gears on other mini lathes,width,bore e.t.c.Also can anyone suggest a Quick change toolpost that fits without much modification

[Geoffrey FairhurstParticipant @geoffreyfairhurst38361]

[Andrew BroomeParticipant @andrewbroome18525]

HI Geoff

I bought a WM180 a few months back as an upgrade to a small Cowells lathe I had. Frankly I have been very pleased with it.

The lathe comes will a full set of cutting gears for threading. I haven't opened mine up, but there is a large bag of oily gears supplied within the toolbox that Comes as standard on the lathe. I cant say how they compare to others, but as a first lathe I don't think you would be disappointed. it has plenty of features, and is perhaps a little more robust than some of the other entry lathes. If you look on the spec on the Warco website, I think you will see what I mean. I did this before my purchase.

In terms of a tool post, you may have seen my thread on this in the Manual Machine section. I looked at the Warco one and it looked a little flimsy to me given that although the lathe is some 60+kg in weight, the tool post stud was only some 10mm. Therefore, when Warco modify the one they supply (to cut out space for the boss at the end of the tool post) you are still left with the same flimsy stud- this I didn't like.

Another member of the forum gave me a brand new tool post (Piston type 250 200 series). it was a beast size wise, but I simply unscrewed the existing one and post, milled off (could have ground off) the boss, and drilled and tapped the slide in M16x1.5. Job done. I am no expert by any means, but I would consider that a very easy conversion. just need to make sure you have the right drill and taps before you start the job.

Hope this helps.

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Andrew, please check your gears…

I didn't for a couple of years on my WMT300/1 and eventually discovered when I needed to do some threading, a couple were missing and I had some unexpected duplicates. By the time I realised, it was too late to reasonably go back and ask for the right ones, so I ended up writing a program to find the alternative threads I could actually do. In a triumph of brute force & ignorance, I found that there were about 8000 different pitches my lathe can do, with 55000 different combinations making up those 8000 pitches.

Oh, and I also discovered the published combination for 3mm pitch threads gave a 15% error.

Regards,

Richard

[Andrew BroomeParticipant @andrewbroome18525]

Wise advice Richard. Thank you.

Regards

Andrew

[Michael Cox 1Participant @michaelcox1]

Hi Geoffrey,

There is much general information about the WM180 on this website:

http://andysmachines.weebly.com/

Unfortunately, Andy passed away last year so you cannot contact him for advice.

Mike

[Andrew BroomeParticipant @andrewbroome18525]

Sad about Andy. I didn't know that. I found his site very informative when I was considering my lathe.

Andrew

[Geoffrey FairhurstParticipant @geoffreyfairhurst38361]

Thanks for the information ,

The reason I was asking about the gears was to help me decide weather to get a metric or an imperial lathe,presumably the quantity of gears supplied differs,and as to the width ,bore,e.t.c.I was curious weather other mini lathe gears would fit as Warco dont advertise spare gears.I will look at your other post about the Q.c.t.p. and yes Mike Andy's site is very informative.

Thanks Geoff

[Geoffrey FairhurstParticipant @geoffreyfairhurst38361]

Just realised I spelt WETHER wrong,twice.

If you do check your gears Andrew It would be helpful to let me know the info on the gears and which metric / imperial choice you made.Can't buy A lathe till end of July Warco have none in stock.

Geoff

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I don't think standard mini-lathe gears fit as the WM10 is a more robust machine although it has essentially the same capacity as the generic mini-lathes.

I may be wrong…

Neil

[Andrew BroomeParticipant @andrewbroome18525]

Hi Geoff

I will check them at the weekend and post.

In terms of comparability, the 180 is a bigger machine to the mini lathes as Neil has said, which is evident from the web pictures and the weight specifications. I don't know about the internal dimensions and how they compare. Does the Warco website help at all? Do you have particularly specialised threading requirements Geoff?

I went for an imperial model as I didn't see i would be disadvantaged. My vernier will switch between imperial and metric at a button push, and I have not had any problems. I think you do just get used to what you use, metric or imperial.

Andrew

[Geoffrey FairhurstParticipant @geoffreyfairhurst38361]

My thoughts are the same Neil, this is why I am trying to find out what gears are supplied with the WM180. I spoke to someone at Warco about it but they wern't very helpful.

Thanks Andrew, will probably go for the imperial myself,no paticular requirements just trying to cover all eventualities

Geoff.

Edited By Geoffrey Fairhurst on 17/06/2015 21:49:38

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Hi Geoffrey,

Hope the following info is helpful.

Regards,
Ed.

 

Warco WM-180  (Metric Version)

Main spindle is 40T

CHANGE GEARS

2 x 80T
1 x 72T
1 x 66T
1 x 60T
1 x 52T
1 x 50T
1 x 45T
1 x 40T
1 x 35T
1 x 33T
1 x 30T
1 x 25T
1 x 20T

Change gear dimensions:

8.0mm width, 9.0mm including spacing boss.

12mm bore, 3mm x 1.5mm keyway

Edited By Ed Duffner on 17/06/2015 21:55:52

[Geoffrey FairhurstParticipant @geoffreyfairhurst38361]

Thanks Ed

The info is superb.The gear dimensions match the other mini lathe gears as far as I can see. I had a very quick read of your other posts and find that you have fitted a QCTP from Arc can this be modded to fit without the need of a milling m/c.

Geoff

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Hi Geoff,

Re: QCTP, all I needed to do was to turn a new inner sleeve on the lathe and bore out the bottom part of the QCTP body. I did the boring on a mill but I'm sure it could be done on a lathe using a 4-jaw chuck and a carbide bit of some type. HSS tool bits would not touch the material when I did mine.

The 250-100 QCTP comes with a 14mm threaded post, but the WM-180 has a 10mm female thread in the compound slide. The new sleeve I turned makes up the difference between the 14 and 10mm posts and I'm using one of my 10mm hold-down clamp bolts for the moment. The 10mm post could also be made on the lathe if required.

Regards,
Ed.

Edited By Ed Duffner on 18/06/2015 03:21:49

[Geoffrey FairhurstParticipant @geoffreyfairhurst38361]

Hi Ed,

Thanks for info on QCTP, 14mm post is some size for a small lathe. Still waiting for new stock of Imperial WM-180 at WARCO I might even go for the metric version to avoid the wait. Did your M/C need much setting up or was it tested and ready to use as implied in their advert. Will probably get the 250-100 TP to fit to lathe if I can convince myself I can bore out the base of QCTP.

Many thanks,

Geoff.

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Hi Geoff,

When the Lathe arrived I set up the stand on the concrete floor in my shed and managed to lift the lathe onto it, all 70 odd kilos, probably why I have some back problems now.

The only issues I had were:

1. Where the bed is bolted down, I had to open up the width of the slot on the headstock end to accept the securing bolt as part of the casting flash was filling the slot. It was very difficult to remove. A die grinder would have been ideal for the job. There was no heavy transport grease or gloop to clean off, it was pretty much RTR.

2. One of the steadies had a badly manufactured bronze pin? finger? not sure what they're called, the bit that bears on the work-piece. Warco replaced this without any fuss.

3. The drive belts were actually crossed onto the wrong pulleys so I had to make sure they were installed correctly before running the motor. I'm not sure how the manufacturer did a test with the belts in that orientation, but there is a test certificate to verify accuracy.

4. I'd suggest having somebody or a piece of kit available to help you lift the lathe into position.

After checking it all over with my novice skill level I did a few tests cuts on some ally and it all seemed ok and very accurate, I'd say within .01mm over 150mm. I get far better results with HSS lathe tools than I do with indexable so if I may suggest, save your money if you were thinking of buying a set of indexable carbide tools.

Regards,
Ed.

[Geoffrey FairhurstParticipant @geoffreyfairhurst38361]

Hi Andrew

Did you get chance to check your gears yet. Ed posted a list of his gears

for his metric lathe and wonder if your imperial lathe has the same gears

Geoff..

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Geoff, (re 17/06/15) I think you want whether, a wether is a castrated male sheep. 3rd time lucky, English is a wonderful language aint it. Ian S C

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Noticing the comments about indexable tools I have found this type to be pretty good really.

They are 110xxx series from APT. This one is a tip listed for finishing stainless. They also do them raked for aluminium. The stainless ones work will with that and other materials too. Holders are a bit of a problem. I had to buy one of those cruddy sets that came with hex screws but I notice Gloster do them complete with Torx so the screws should be swapped immediately. I use 10mm ones which are adequate for a boxford. Spare screws can also be bought from APT. The sets have LH, RH this hand etc but to be honest I only use this one.

This is the results dry on some silver steel a local supplier was selling off, think I can guess why. Come back stubbs but I guess I could anneal it. Just trying them on a bit of left over from something else.

Few things to realise. The shot is larger than life and the work feels like glass. There is a slight coarse repeat pattern along the work that seems to be caused by a rather large heavy wobbly pulley on the countershaft setting up a vibration in the lathe. The tears and machining marks are um deep and not many at that.

I had a Schaublin for restoration for a while and one of the people on their group suggested I tried them. Best I have found and on materials like this I don't think I could do better with HSS really – unless I can find some way of making it literally razor sharp. On the other hand an even smaller rad than the one on the inserts might help.

The tips that come with the cheap sets are so so but usable. I don't buy ebay tip bargains any more. I suspect some have actually been used. Not from main suppliers of course but I have seen buckets of them come from machine shops and they always look as new – taken off before they have worn out as people don't want to wait until the machine produces scrap.

John

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[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Hi john,

That's an interesting point about those tips you are showing. The edge looks to be a lot keener than those I have, which were bought from one of the regular suppliers as opposed to Ebay.

Regards,
Ed.

[Andrew BroomeParticipant @andrewbroome18525]

Hi Geoff

I am sorry didn't, but I will try and do it this time around.

Thinking of a DRO for mine. Just want something small though and not too expensive, commensurate with the lathe.

Regards

Andrew

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Ed Duffner on 25/06/2015 19:45:12:

Hi john,

That's an interesting point about those tips you are showing. The edge looks to be a lot keener than those I have, which were bought from one of the regular suppliers as opposed to Ebay.

Regards,
Ed.

The only problem with buying off APT is that their stock changes but they generally have a range of the 11mm triangular tips like these for various materials. Fortunately the ebay holder sets are pretty cheap and the tips on them can be used so obtaining a couple of one style isn't much of a problem. I haven't found a source for single holders of one style. APT do a turn and face holder of a suitable size but so far it has been out of stock when I have looked. It may be too big for some small lathes . Some of the brass turning in my album was done with the stainless tips and the finish is as it looks without any polishing of any sort. The threads were cut with HSS chasers and boring done with HSS. I am probably going to make a holder for boring with the same tips at some point. I don't like the bought ones. The tip orientation isn't suitable for facing pockets. They are usually only suited for boring straight through.

John

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