Union T&C grinder Wiring

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

My latest toy is a Union Tool & Cutter grinder which is at present on a Clarke motor and push button switch but the correct rotary forward/stop/ reverse is present but with all the wires cut.

I would like to use this switch but need some guidance.

Writing on the switch states that it is a Santon SR 137 KA 16A 250V.

To me that means that it is not a 3 phase one, is that correct?

There are 9 terminals plus earth.

Can anyone help me with wiring?

The Clarke may be a NVR but I need to find some markings on it. If it is an NVR then I shall add it into the circuit.

Brian

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

How to wire the built in forward stop reverse switch?

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

If nobody can help, have you tried Santon?

**LINK**

[Brian Sweeting 2Participant @briansweeting2]

Checking with Google brought up a 2010 thread from here, diagrams included….

 

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=43963

Edited By Brian Sweeting on 30/11/2017 15:22:55

[Mark Simpson 1Participant @marksimpson1]

Brian

If it helps the original motor on my Union Tool and Cutter grinder was definitely 3 Phase…

It was also completly shot, following advicefrom this forum, I replaced it with the body of an 8" single phase bench grinder, original needed new shaft, bearings and windings…. Great result for £29.99

(I've never needed to reverse the motor b.t.w.)

Good Luck
Mark

[Martin CargillParticipant @martincargill50290]

First things first. Is your machine 3 phase? Secondly are there any terminal markings on your santon switch? If it has nine terminals its probably for a 3 phase motor

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Thanks for the replies. I've left a message with Santon who hopefully will get back to me.

I've downloaded the diagrams and now need to study them.

I wondered about the reverse myself but realised that if the head was spun round to use the other wheel then it would go backwards, hence the need for reverse. I then wondered how this would affect the nuts holding the wheels on?

Brian

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Sorry Martin, your post must have popped up when I was writing the previous reply.

The machine has been fitted with a Clarke double ended grinder unit along with a Clarke push button starter, both of which are 1 ph.

I thought that the machine would have originally been 3 ph but the 250v on the switch threw me somewhat.

There are terminals marked 1 to 7 with two of the terminals also joined to 2 unmarked terminals. There is also the earth wire.

Brian

[Martin CargillParticipant @martincargill50290]

Difficult to tell what you have got. The Santon switch numbers you are giving sound more like ratings for the switch rather than the model number, without a model number its difficult to trace what you have. It may be possible to sit down with a multi meter and work out what the switch is doing and then add it to the circuit. Having said that it is more difficult to reverse a single phase motor compared to a 3 phase motor.

To reverse a 3 phase motor all you need to do is swap two of the incoming phases. To reverse as single phase motor, assuming its a capacitor start motor, you need to reverse the connections to the capacitor and start winding. On some motors this is easily done as the terminals are brought out to allow you to do this easily, however I cannot imagine that a Clarke bench grinder has this feature and finding the correct winding terminals will probably be difficult.

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

I contacted Santon as suggested and got back a build sheet, a planning sheet and 8 off wiring diagrams! I think my best bet is to contact an electrician although I've changed my mind about including reverse, just forwards will do especially as there are no keys on the wheel drives.

Also, I'm not happy with the existing motor as it is quite noisy and the shaft shows some signs of abuse. I'll try to find another motor and also a NVR switch.

Thanks to the people who replied, I'm at least a LITTLE wiser now.

Brian

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Have now placed the start switch box in a different position ( in the old position it was not possible to fully rotate the grinding head.) and rewired it with new wire.

I put another wheel on it at the end with a left hand thread, after making a 1/2" LH Whit nut and some spacers. It now runs fairly quietly! I didn't have the finger holder/diamond dresser holder but have canibalised and old clock stand to replace it.

I just need Santa to bring me a set of ER32 collets to go with my Stevenson endmill fixture and I can have a practice on an end mill ( I have quite a few that are blunt or chipped or both)

Brian

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

Brian

Do you need any other information for your Union T&C grinder ?

I have a few documents etc stashed away.

Phil

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Thanks for the offer Phil;I have a copy of the Operators Manual but no maintenance information. I have the pictures from the Lathes site showing the accessories, some of which I don't have such as the height gauge but I'm sure one of those shouldn't be too difficult to make.I I can't see me ever needing a motor driven work head and I don't know about the clearance angle setting gauge, I need to learn how to use the machine before worrying about that!

Brian

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

I made my own angle setting gauge for the Union grinder, I can let you have the drawing if you feel inclined to have a go at making it.

I found the original motor to be unsuitable for my use due to its speed limitations, so I designed my own grinding head for it. This unit will also fit onto the Myford super 7 lathe and can be used for cylindrical grinding as well.

Here it is grinding the big end journal on a model engine crankshaft.

The Union gets used for all sorts of jobs, once you get it up and running you will think of plenty of new uses for it.

Gear Hob sharpening.

Four Facet drill grinding

Surface grinding

Phil

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Phil, that is a beautiful Union. My favourite T&CG. Prefer them by far to a Clarkson. Certainly puts my Stent to shame. Well done!

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Phil, I agree with Thaiguzzi, your Union looks very nice; I didn't realise that it was THAT one.

I'd be very grateful for a copy of your drawing for the angle setting gauge.

Brian

[Author]

Posts