Tooling to buy with Warco WM250 and WM16?

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Hi

Many years ago I did a machining programme at university. After a decade and a half of being a not-very technical engineer, the craving to make things has bitten with a vengeance. To get my machining skills back up, as well as the satisfaction of seeing raw metal turned into functioning projects, I am looking at buying a Warco WM250 lathe and their WM16 Mill.

The lathe and mill come with some associated paraphernalia, but no cutting tools. If you have these machines, or even if you don't but feel able to make suggestions – what else should I factor into the purchase? I have already listed cutting tools, end mills, rotary table and vice. What else is a "must buy"?

Cheers for reading!

PS thought about putting this in the dedicated WM16 and WM250 thread, but the last time it was posted to was quite a while ago!

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

For the mill if not already fitted a digital read out for at least the x& y axis is a good fit, I have the wm14 and bought my dro from warco, best move I did

Mick

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

On the mill You will need something to hold the cutters eg an ER chuck and something to hold the work. A clamp set is very flexible and a vice can be very convenient. Much has been written on this forum about work and cutter holding and Jason is underway in MEW with a series on milling. The lathe has the same questions to ask, how to hold the tool and how to hold the work. The classic kit is a 3 jaw self centering chuck, a 4 jaw indendependant, a faceplate and a catch plate for between centres work. Tool posts can be anything from a single tool holder, a four way holder or a quick change setup of your choice. Many other accessories are available eg taper turning attachment, collet chucks etc. One way or another you will eventually acquire a lot of tooling but unless you want and can afford to buy every possible thing it is probably best to firm up on the minimum you need to get going on what you want to make and then add things as required.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 03/02/2018 22:52:55

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Hi Mick

How do you find the 14? I was a little worried about the vertical height especially if using a rotary table. Do you find that limits what you can do?

Believe it or not I started with just thinking of the lathe milling attachment warco sells. Then I realised it was the head of the wm14, slapped on the lathe, and for only 250 more I could get the full mill! Then of course the entire WM range started batting its eyelids at me and so at the mo am plumping for the 16. Seeing the 18's american sibling G0704 showing off on youtube has tempted me even to go for the biggest unit, but thats getting silly money for a machine I don't even know I will need.

A DRO is certainly something I would like to look into later, perhaps even CNC conversion (maybe when I have replenished funds).

In terms of the "get you up and running" type stuff, what would you say is most important? Stuff like fly cutters, collets, vices, lathe boring bars and so on I know I will need to look into, but being a relative beginner I would like to get the stuff I will get most use out of first.

Cheers!

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Dial test indicator (DTI) and magnetic stand is essential in my thoughts as well as a digital calliper and some micrometres if you can stretch the budget. A centre finder is useful but not essential and some parallels for milling are a great help. I always have a selection of High Speed Tooling pieces for turning as you will need to make turning and boring tools and you will need a grinder to sharpen them on as well. If I think of anything else I will post later.

David

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by Mike Poole on 03/02/2018 22:51:02:

On the mill You will need something to hold the cutters eg an ER chuck and something to hold the work. A clamp set is very flexible and a vice can be very convenient. Much has been written on this forum about work and cutter holding and Jason is underway in MEW with a series on milling. The lathe has the same questions to ask, how to hold the tool and how to hold the work. The classic kit is a 3 jaw self centering chuck, a 4 jaw indendependant, a faceplate and a catch plate for between centres work. Tool posts can be anything from a single tool holder, a four way holder or a quick change setup of your choice. Many other accessories are available eg taper turning attachment, collet chucks etc. One way or another you will eventually acquire a lot of tooling but unless you want and can afford to buy every possible thing it is probably best to firm up on the minimum you need to get going on what you want to make and then add things as required.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 03/02/2018 22:52:55

Hi Mike

Thanks for the highly detailed response! I agree with the logic of going with the bare minimum first, no point in spending on an expensive paperweight. I know the 250 lathe has:

• Face plate
• Three jaw 125mm self centre chuck with inside and outside jaws
• Four jaw 125mm independent chuck
• Fixed steady
• Travelling steady
• Two dead centres

And here's a pic showing he toolpost on the thing

The mill has

• Drawbars – in 10mm and 3/8" Whit. sizes
• 13mm drill chuck
• Arbor for drill chuck

So I guess I am looking at:

• ER chuck for mill
• clamp set
• vice
• Standard Cutters and end mills

Seem about right or is there anything obviously missing?

Really appreciate the help!

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

A revolving centre would be useful.

David

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Get mill with R8 taper and use R8 collets. Similar price to ER, and gives you another 40 to 50 mm headroom. Buy a rotary table when you absolutely need it not before.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Soft jaws, revolving tailstock centre and decent drill chuck for the lathe. I bought the WM250V for the powered crossfeed and better drive.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

This lot came with the SX2.7, there may be one of two items there you don't really need

As has been said both Neil and Myself have a beginners series in MEW that may help you, Neil is doing the lathe and I am doing the mill.

As a basic kit for the mill

Clamps set, Vice, ER Collet and 6 collets, Lever DTI and magnetic stand, Edge/ctr finder, 6 & 10mm 3-flute cutters should bet you going, buy anything else as the need arrises.

Edited By JasonB on 04/02/2018 08:17:50

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

Hi Ross,

Height has only been an occasional problem, I mainly use a 4" milling vice with the swivel base removed, I bought a 6" rotary table which can be a problem heightwise especially with a chuck fitted, perhaps a 4"table would have been better. On reflection the WM 16/18 would give more capacity but money was a problem. On the x axis the longer table on the larger machines would be be better the 14 will barely give 8"approx,the y axis has been okay so far. The rubber way protector lasted about 5 minutes and the face shield became fuzzed up quite quickly and i removed it opting for safety glasses instead. Accessories I have bought are clamping set, er32 collet set,dro,edge finders and spring loaded tapping thingys. All in all it has done all I have needed and I am well pleased with it, I also have an old Adcock & Shipley horizontal mill for heavier work.

I would definitly recommend the mills go for the largest you can afford

Regards   Mick

 

 

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Ross, like Mick I have the WM14 it is a little short on Z height especially when using a rotary table with chuck fitted. If I had my choice over I would go for the WM16 belt drive, DC motor. I have the WM250 (an old one) never had any problems with it, go for the latest version with VFD and if available power cross-feed. There is some info on my website for both the lathe and mill, a bit old now but the basic machines are still the same *** Journeyman's Workshop ***

John

Edited By Journeyman on 04/02/2018 10:05:24

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by Journeyman on 04/02/2018 09:55:59:

Ross, like Mick I have the WM14 it is a little short on Z height especially when using a rotary table with chuck fitted. If I had my choice over I would go for the WM16 belt drive, DC motor. I have the WM250 (an old one) never had any problems with it, go for the latest version with VFD and if available power cross-feed. There is some info on my website for both the lathe and mill, a bit old now but the basic machines are still the same *** Journeyman's Workshop ***

John

Edited By Journeyman on 04/02/2018 10:05:24

Hi there

it was actually your review online that made me consider a full mill rather than the 250 attachment, and part about z height limitation moved me towards the 16 too. I would love the powered crossfeed, but need to be careful on my costs. So I decided for the lower model 250. I may live to regret it, but the old finances at the moment could stand to be a little on the richer side! Is it upgradeable further down the line?

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by Mick Henshall on 04/02/2018 09:40:16:

Hi Ross,

Height has only been an occasional problem, I mainly use a 4" milling vice with the swivel base removed, I bought a 6" rotary table which can be a problem heightwise especially with a chuck fitted, perhaps a 4"table would have been better. On reflection the WM 16/18 would give more capacity but money was a problem. On the x axis the longer table on the larger machines would be be better the 14 will barely give 8"approx,the y axis has been okay so far. The rubber way protector lasted about 5 minutes and the face shield became fuzzed up quite quickly and i removed it opting for safety glasses instead. Accessories I have bought are clamping set, er32 collet set,dro,edge finders and spring loaded tapping thingys. All in all it has done all I have needed and I am well pleased with it, I also have an old Adcock & Shipley horizontal mill for heavier work.

I would definitly recommend the mills go for the largest you can afford

Regards  Mick

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Cheers Mick, the 16 is looking like a good buy then. I will add your tooling suggestions to the list as well.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Hello Ross – I have had a 250v-f and still have a 16 mill. +1 for all suggestions from chaps on here so far.

I would not be without my QCTP for my lathe. I currently have 17 tool holders but still could do with a few more.

Also, you might consider making yourself a spindle turning mandrel as my 250v-f lowest speed was way to fast for safe screw cutting (for me anyway!)

As for the mill, DRO scales fitted to the X and Y turn the mill into a virtual jig borer – highly recommended. And don't forget a centre/edge finding device or "wriggler", cheap as chips but essential.

Rik

Edited By Rik Shaw on 04/02/2018 10:22:44

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Ross, I know it is a big lump of cash but you only have to spend it once and it will last a long time. All the fancy accessories you can add later. Better get the best you can now rather than keep saying "I wish it had a VFD", "I wish it had power cross-feed" etc. for the next 20 years. Unfortunately most of these things are not upgradeable later. Just my opinion, whatever you end up with enjoy it…

John

Edit: Typo

Edited By Journeyman on 04/02/2018 10:36:20

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by JasonB on 04/02/2018 07:55:00:

This lot came with the SX2.7, there may be one of two items there you don't really need

As has been said both Neil and Myself have a beginners series in MEW that may help you, Neil is doing the lathe and I am doing the mill.

As a basic kit for the mill

Clamps set, Vice, ER Collet and 6 collets, Lever DTI and magnetic stand, Edge/ctr finder, 6 & 10mm 3-flute cutters should bet you going, buy anything else as the need arrises.

Edited By JasonB on 04/02/2018 08:17:50

Wow, that all came included in the price? Can I ask how much you parted with for it and who you went with? On the arc-eurotrade site, that gear doesn't seem to be included unless you stump up the readies!

The kit suggestions sound good, I think I have a great shopping list now. Re: the beginner articles, my google-fu is failing me, how do you get hold of them?

Apologies for the barrage of questions, and thanks again!

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by David George 1 on 03/02/2018 23:14:54:

Dial test indicator (DTI) and magnetic stand is essential in my thoughts as well as a digital calliper and some micrometres if you can stretch the budget. A centre finder is useful but not essential and some parallels for milling are a great help. I always have a selection of High Speed Tooling pieces for turning as you will need to make turning and boring tools and you will need a grinder to sharpen them on as well. If I think of anything else I will post later.

David

Cheers David, I like the idea of buying tools that let me make other tools. The workshop course has some of that, for example the first lathe project lets you build a scribe, and one of the later mill projects has you building a small screw jack and teaching you the joys of milling cast iron! Any thoughts on grinder spec? I have seen some cheapies with lower wattage, for example one in B&Q – do they just conk out with certain operations though?

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by John Haine on 03/02/2018 23:31:55:

Get mill with R8 taper and use R8 collets. Similar price to ER, and gives you another 40 to 50 mm headroom. Buy a rotary table when you absolutely need it not before.

Are R8 and ER mutually exclusive? As in, would I shut myself out of using one if I buy the other? I had wondered if the collets were interchangeable from lathe to mill, in which case some money can be saved.

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by Rik Shaw on 04/02/2018 10:21:00:

Hello Ross – I have had a 250v-f and still have a 16 mill. +1 for all suggestions from chaps on here so far.

I would not be without my QCTP for my lathe. I currently have 17 tool holders but still could do with a few more.

Also, you might consider making yourself a spindle turning mandrel as my 250v-f lowest speed was way to fast for safe screw cutting (for me anyway!)

As for the mill, DRO scales fitted to the X and Y turn the mill into a virtual jig borer – highly recommended. And don't forget a centre/edge finding device or "wriggler", cheap as chips but essential.

Rik

Edited By Rik Shaw on 04/02/2018 10:22:44

That mandrel looks like an excellent project to try! Looking at the pic I posted above of the 250, can you tell if that is a quick change post or… not-quick change? At the moment my beginner eyes don't know what to look for.

Would you say the powered crossfeed is a must-have?

With the mill, I have some future plans to CNC it, and so a DRO would end up being surplus to requirements eventually. That said, what are the benefits you find day to day with using one?

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by Ross Lloyd 1 on 04/02/2018 10:39:32:

Are R8 and ER mutually exclusive? As in, would I shut myself out of using one if I buy the other? I had wondered if the collets were interchangeable from lathe to mill, in which case some money can be saved.

No, you can mount an ER chuck in an R8 collet so you can have the best of both worlds. Small fly in the ointment is that Warco don't do the mill with R8. ER collets you can use in a chuck on the lathe not sure about R8 as they need a draw-bar. I use my ER25 collets in the mill and on the lathe, very useful. Other tooling like drill chuck and boring heads may be interchangeable depending what taper you end up with in the mill.

John

Edited By Journeyman on 04/02/2018 10:59:22

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by Journeyman on 04/02/2018 10:24:58:

Ross, I know it is a big lump of cash but you only have to spend it once and it will last a long time. All the fancy accessories you can add later. Better get the best you can now rather than keep saying "I wish it had a VFD", "I wish it had power cross-feed" etc. for the next 20 years. Unfortunately most of these things are not upgradeable later. Just my opinion, whatever you end up with enjoy it…

John

Edit: Typo

Edited By Journeyman on 04/02/2018 10:36:20

Haha my bank manager is wincing! Thanks for the advice, something to mull over

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by Mick B1 on 04/02/2018 07:18:23:

Soft jaws, revolving tailstock centre and decent drill chuck for the lathe. I bought the WM250V for the powered crossfeed and better drive.

Hi Mick

Whats the benefit with the soft jaws? Less marking on softer parts such as brass? Didnt think of the drill chuck, thats a great point

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Soft Jaws are machined to suit the dia of the work so will be very accurate, less marking, less risk of squashing thin walled items and if you turn a step they will hold thin work flat across the lathe axis.

If you have a mill with a Morse Taper spindle then all tooling can be used on the lathe provided taper is same size or larger. R8 tooling can't be used on the lathe. ER collets are held in an chuck that fits the mill spindle so chuck to suit the machine either R8 or MT. If using ER on the lathe then a dedicated lathe ER t chuck is teh best option and not that expensive.

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