Record 25 vice handle

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I have put up with the s shaped kink in the Record vice handle for long enough. Can anyone tell me what type of steel I should use for making a straight one?

Before you ask, I didn't bend it, the previous owner must have got a lump hammer to it!

Andrew.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Bright mild steel…

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 13/11/2019 15:53:32:

I have put up with the s shaped kink in the Record vice handle for long enough.

I thought they came like that

Neil

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Mark, I am surprised at your mention of bright mild steel. With all the maltreatment that the handles get, I thought it would be something more exotic!

Neil , maybe you are correct at that, most second hand vices seem to come with a built in kink.

Thank you both,

Andrew.

[Trevor Drabble 1Participant @trevordrabble1]

Andrew , Have you tried talking with Irwin , the owner of Record , either for the spec or maybe even a complete replacement handle ?

Trevor .

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

If the handle of a vice is bent then it must have been abused, a mild steel replacement should not bend if it is just tightened by hand, using a tube should be just to make life easier not to give extra purchase beyond what a man can apply without an aid. Vices can be broken with extreme over tightening.

Mike

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

Posted by Mike Poole on 13/11/2019 19:10:28:

If the handle of a vice is bent then it must have been abused, a mild steel replacement should not bend if it is just tightened by hand, using a tube should be just to make life easier not to give extra purchase beyond what a man can apply without an aid. Vices can be broken with extreme over tightening.

Mike

Words of experience?

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Agreed. Mild steel should be fine. Unmachined bright drawn will be stronger in bend due to the stressed area close to the outside produced by the drawing process.

Some American references suggest AISI 1144 which looks to be a good material as being stronger than mild steel and inherently slightly springy making it less likely to bend. Not a clue what the UK / Euro equivalent is. Certainly not a so called EN number for sure. Other folk suggest 4130 chrome moly which is getting silly!

Clive

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Posted by Brian Oldford on 13/11/2019 19:14:49:

Posted by Mike Poole on 13/11/2019 19:10:28:

If the handle of a vice is bent then it must have been abused, a mild steel replacement should not bend if it is just tightened by hand, using a tube should be just to make life easier not to give extra purchase beyond what a man can apply without an aid. Vices can be broken with extreme over tightening.

Mike

Words of experience?

I have seen a broken vice but it wasn’t my handiwork. My vice is a 5” jaw Record and the tommy bar is still straight, I occasionally use an old fork leg as assistance but only because I find that it’s easy to bruise my office worker hands a bit to easily these days.

Mike

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

The handle is made from EN16T the original is forged in situ one end is heated and drop forged then put through the spindle and the second end is induction heated and forged. I have made a replacement handle by turning a small step on each end of the shaft and then hammering on a turned end sleeve. There was a slight champher on the sleeve and the shaft protrudes slightly. I then peened over the end with a ball pained hammer. Thread through and repeat for other end.

David

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

OK, EN16T is about 50% stronger than BMS. If you're heavy handed, it might be needed.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Thanks everyone,

There is little difference in cost betwween BMS and EN16T, so I will go for the latter. Despite the past ill usage, the vice seems to be in VGC, so I shall treat it to a new handle and jaws, maybe even some paint after I have cleaned it up.

Andrew.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Anyone can bend the handle (or break the vise) by abusing the design. The handle should bend before the vise breaks; the handle should not be long enough to cause a problem (unless abused). The usual problem is the operator not the vise – if the vise is of good quality.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

As above. It is surely a good idea to 'design' the handle to fail by bending before the vice is subject to excess force?

Have a look at this **LINK**

…and the follow-up on the DIY construction of a serious vice!

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I’ve already seen those videos. The vise tests should be enlightening, if one was not aware of the facts beforehand – and quality counts – but that vise he made is remarkable! But nobody should be abusing their vise like he did!

I will never need a better heavy vise, than the one I have now (and the smaller one it replaced). It’s old and not entirely perfect but it will outlast me. I would have both on the bench if I had sufficient space…

There are also a couple of very small vises around, which work perfectly adequately within their size constraints, Then there is the old (original aluminium type) B & D workmate. Horses for courses as usual.

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi all, then just for the icing on the cake you could fit a suitably fat O ring at each end, under the head, to forestall that eye watering moment whilst in a rush, when the handle slides down from a near vertical position & traps the web between your thumb & first finger creating a torrent of Industrial Language, just a thought.

Cheers, Bob H

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by David George 1 on 13/11/2019 19:49:56:

The handle is made from EN16T the original is forged in situ one end is heated and drop forged then put through the spindle and the second end is induction heated and forged. …

This seems entirely credible. However, in Scott Landis' "The Workbench Book" the author (who apparently visited the Record factory) states that the woodworking vice handles were cold-forged at both ends.

Does this suggest the use of different steel for woodworking vice handles and that metal workers are more likely to abuse their tools?!

Edited By ega on 14/11/2019 11:56:40

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

A lot of the fancier woodworking vices have wooden handles, albeit a little thicker.
I have a 4in vice on a plate to put on a workmate to use outside for dirty jobs. I dropped it and it landed on the handle and bent it. This might be some kind of indication of the strength of material.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by robjon44 on 14/11/2019 11:15:13:

Hi all, then just for the icing on the cake you could fit a suitably fat O ring at each end, under the head, to forestall that eye watering moment whilst in a rush, when the handle slides down from a near vertical position & traps the web between your thumb & first finger creating a torrent of Industrial Language, just a thought.

Cheers, Bob H

I was just about to pass a similar comment; I used a short length of thick wall reinforced rubber tubing, the sort of stuff used for air lines or gas welding bagging. Car heater, or oil pipe would do, but just make sure it has fibre, rather than the steel wire braiding often found in hydraulic pipes.
Bill

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

This is one vice you wouldn't want to bend the handle on, maybe it a vice that you wouldnt even dare to use

Bugatti Vice

https://tula-bug.co.uk/vices/

 

Ian P

PS in the region of £5K!!!

Edited By Ian P on 14/11/2019 13:15:15

[egaParticipant @ega]

I recall reading that Ettore Bugatti, who was as much artist as engineer, was in the habit of inspecting the jaws of his workers vices and firing anyone with file marks on them.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Ian P on 14/11/2019 13:14:12:

This is one vice you wouldn't want to bend the handle on, maybe it a vice that you wouldnt even dare to use

Bugatti Vice

https://tula-bug.co.uk/vices/

Ian P

PS in the region of £5K!!!

Edited By Ian P on 14/11/2019 13:15:15

Just looked at the url posted. Price has over doubled in 9 months? Says £1600 + VAT.

Perhaps it is the big brother at your price?

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Ndiy, there is more than one model I think and the larger one is about £5k

Ian P

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