Quick change tool post

[martin107Participant @martin107]

Hi,

I think I'm buying a Myford ML7 is a Quick change tool post​ a good investment (a RDG one) they do a couple of types what is the difference please, also what else is a "must have" accessory will I need.

Thanks

Martin

[martin107Participant @martin107]

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Martin,

My advice would be a socalled Dickson toolpost, with some extra toolholders. I assume you have cutting tools and measuring tools. A tangential toolholder, something like this, has toolbits that is easy to sharpen and cut well. It is not difficult to make your own.

Thor

[martin107Participant @martin107]

Many thanks,

RDG call it a Dixon but I assume it is the same, as to cutting tools etc. I don't even have a lathe or any idea what I'm doing with it yet a complete novice unless you call using one at school and I left there in 72 so I set for many hours of frustration and joy to come.

Cheers Martin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by martin107 on 01/10/2017 07:28:08:

Many thanks,

RDG call it a Dixon …

.

Possibly because they don't have rights to the Dickson name

… or possibly due to ignorance, or an overly 'helpful' spell-checker.

MichaelG.

.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/page13.html

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 01/10/2017 07:38:19

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Main thing you need is Neil's new series on "lathework for beginners" should tell you all you need to know and more. See that latest issue of MEW

[martin107Participant @martin107]

Thanks Thor,

That Diamond tool holder looks interesting are they as good as the video shows and are they worth £82

Cheers Martin

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

My advice when buying a QC tool post would be to make sure the tool posts "mechanism" pulls the tool holder into the post on locking, as a Dickson does. Some do the opposite, that is to say the tool holder is pushed away from the post. This will have a significant effect on rigidity.

John

[martin107Participant @martin107]

This is the one I was looking at unless anyone has a better suggestion https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/5PC-QUICK-CHANGE-TOOLPOST-TO-FIT-MYFORD–dixon-type–725MYFORD.html Thanks

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by John MC on 01/10/2017 08:27:45:

My advice when buying a QC tool post would be to make sure the tool posts "mechanism" pulls the tool holder into the post on locking, as a Dickson does. Some do the opposite, that is to say the tool holder is pushed away from the post. This will have a significant effect on rigidity.

Newton's third law?

In a Dickson the piton pulls and the dovetails push in equal amounts.

In some others the dovetails pull and the pistons push.

Is there really a difference in rigidity?

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by martin107 on 01/10/2017 07:47:46:

Thanks Thor,

That Diamond tool holder looks interesting are they as good as the video shows and are they worth £82

Cheers Martin

Yes they are good. Worth £82? It depends how much you need/want one and how much you will use it. They are well made and it includes the 'crobalt' bit which is not cheap.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Fancy tools and toolholders are a mirage to deceive the beginner.
Don't get a QCTP until you have several years of experience or more money than sense. You shouldn't be in such a hurry that you need the 'quick' part and if you are too lazy to set the height with shims you are in the wrong hobby.
Don't get a set of carbide tools – often they are crap quality and half are the wrong shape.
Don't get 3/8 or 10mm tool bits for a Myford as it is not about getting the maximum size that can be forced into position.
Do get some 1/4 in HSS toolbits off ebay maybe a handful of used ones at <£1 each. Some will be sort of ground into a nearly usable shape.
Do get a grinder – Screwfix have a 200mm 'Titan' one that I recently got that is amazing value.
Don't think that you need a fancy tool rest for the grinder that has more setting handles than a moon rocket.
Do find out what a 'slip stone' is and get one.

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Posted by John MC on 01/10/2017 08:27:45:

My advice when buying a QC tool post would be to make sure the tool posts "mechanism" pulls the tool holder into the post on locking, as a Dickson does. Some do the opposite, that is to say the tool holder is pushed away from the post. This will have a significant effect on rigidity.

Newton's third law?

In a Dickson the piton pulls and the dovetails push in equal amounts.

In some others the dovetails pull and the pistons push.

Is there really a difference in rigidity?

Most definitely, the loads from the cutting point of the tool need to be fed into the machine. Any lack of rigidity (stiffness?) and gaps in the path will cause vibration.

"Fancy tools and toolholders are a mirage to deceive the beginner.
Don't get a QCTP until you have several years of experience or more money than sense. You shouldn't be in such a hurry that you need the 'quick' part and if you are too lazy to set the height with shims you are in the wrong hobby."

Good point there, While I have had QC tool posts on my lathes for a long time now many years ago my first "proper" lathe was a round bed Drummond No chance of buying a QC tool post on my wage so I had a selection of shims that lived permanently under my favoured tools. Changing tools was almost as quick as a tool change with a QCTP!

John.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Well Martin

I certainly find a QCTP worthwhile – but to BE QuickChange you need a few holders – and I have a few!

Comment was also made about the "Tangential tool holder" – a good tool and useful for many jobs – you will see that I have one fitted to a boat for the QCTP. I also have a QCTP on a rear toolpost which is mostly used for an inverted parting off tool ( less traumatic than the usual front tool method!)

(OK I admit it I am a QCTP Fan!)

Norman

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Yes a QCTP is nice, when you can afford it but most of the people new to the hobby are on a budget and there are just so many things that are more necessary to start with.

There is also a problem with beginners thinking carbide bits, expensive tools and tool holders are the answer to their problems with finish when it generally turns out to be a huge disappointment.

[Jon CameronParticipant @joncameron26580]

Posted by Bazyle on 01/10/2017 11:51:31:

Fancy tools and toolholders are a mirage to deceive the beginner.
Don't get a QCTP until you have several years of experience or more money than sense. You shouldn't be in such a hurry that you need the 'quick' part and if you are too lazy to set the height with shims you are in the wrong hobby.
Don't get a set of carbide tools – often they are crap quality and half are the wrong shape.
Don't get 3/8 or 10mm tool bits for a Myford as it is not about getting the maximum size that can be forced into position.
Do get some 1/4 in HSS toolbits off ebay maybe a handful of used ones at <£1 each. Some will be sort of ground into a nearly usable shape.
Do get a grinder – Screwfix have a 200mm 'Titan' one that I recently got that is amazing value.
Don't think that you need a fancy tool rest for the grinder that has more setting handles than a moon rocket.
Do find out what a 'slip stone' is and get one.

This is all good advice, and I think you need to take heed, as a newbie myself I too was almost drawn in by the QC tool post, for a newbie, you'll find you don't work quick enough for it to be of any merit.

Learn how to center a tool off the tailstock, using a dead center as your reference, beer or coke cans can make cheap readily available packing material, and you'll get your tool within 5thou of the hieght you need. 1/4" HSS tooling means you'll need some thicker strips of packing material to get a rigid setup. 3/8" become useless once much of the top surface has been ground away. A Tee bar with the correct sized socket/Allen bolt for your tool post is a good way to speed things up but a spanner is just fine. Get a cheap pair of tin snips, for cutting the cans up. Though some very sharp scissors will work.

I had a go on a friends bench grinder, and it was easy, just have a cup of water on stand by and don't leave it in contact too long, you don't want the HSS steel getting too hot. The stone can be used to round the edge off so you aren't turning on a point which will give you a screw type cut not nice and smooth.

Just my learning from my brief exploits in tooling for the lathe. My ML4 has a 4way tool post a block of Aluminum with a cut across it's middle and bolts arranged all the way around. If you know a friend with a milling machine, a 4way tool post will be more beneficial for a fraction of the price. You can have two tools set up in the post, and just swivel it, though be warned not to catch you arm on the one sticking towards you as you take a measurement of the piece of work in the chuck.

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/10/2017 08:58:35

In a Dickson the piton pulls and the dovetails push in equal amounts.

In some others the dovetails pull and the pistons push.

Is there really a difference in rigidity?

Neil

I've used a 250 series toolpost (China) on my 6 1/2 center height lathe for a few years, the piston pushes the holder out against the dovetails. A few months ago I saw A wedge type toolpost in the ArcEurotrade catologue which uses the same toolholders, the price seemed very reasonable so I ordered one. I get the impression that it is slightly more rigid than the piston type but there is little difference between the two.

Dave

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Posted by Bazyle on 01/10/2017 11:51:31:

Fancy tools and toolholders are a mirage to deceive the beginner.
Don't get a QCTP until you have several years of experience or more money than sense. You shouldn't be in such a hurry that you need the 'quick' part and if you are too lazy to set the height with shims you are in the wrong hobby.
Don't get a set of carbide tools – often they are crap quality and half are the wrong shape.
Don't get 3/8 or 10mm tool bits for a Myford as it is not about getting the maximum size that can be forced into position.
Do get some 1/4 in HSS toolbits off ebay maybe a handful of used ones at <£1 each. Some will be sort of ground into a nearly usable shape.
Do get a grinder – Screwfix have a 200mm 'Titan' one that I recently got that is amazing value.
Don't think that you need a fancy tool rest for the grinder that has more setting handles than a moon rocket.
Do find out what a 'slip stone' is and get one.

​ The problem with a list of dont's is that it may not be suitable for others. For example
I did spend years with shims before I bought a quick change toolpost and all I can say is it did me very little good. It is not just a matter of saving time, it is also a matter of making the experience more pleasant.

​ Take advice by all means but also go with what you feel is right for yourself. Making poor decisions is sometimes more educational than just following what others do.

Doug

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Martin,

Sorry for not using RDG's spelling, but as far as I know the spelling has been "Dickson", Michael, you are probably right in your explanation.

I agree with Neil, the tangential toolholders are good and it is up to you to decide whether its worth £82.I made my own tangential toolholders and use them a lot.

Thor

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by John MC on 01/10/2017 12:26:08:

Posted by John MC on 01/10/2017 08:27:45:

My advice when buying a QC tool post would be to make sure the tool posts "mechanism" pulls the tool holder into the post on locking, as a Dickson does. Some do the opposite, that is to say the tool holder is pushed away from the post. This will have a significant effect on rigidity.

Newton's third law?

In a Dickson the piton pulls and the dovetails push in equal amounts.

In some others the dovetails pull and the pistons push.

Is there really a difference in rigidity?

Most definitely, the loads from the cutting point of the tool need to be fed into the machine. Any lack of rigidity (stiffness?) and gaps in the path will cause vibration.

Sorry John, I really don't understand what difference it makes if the pistons or the dovetails do the pulling or the pushing?

I disagree with Bazyle too – if you are doing a job with repetitive tool swapping a QCTP can turn it into an enjoyable job rather than a drudge you keep putting off.

Neil

[Jon CameronParticipant @joncameron26580]

If I'm honest I'd spend the £82 towards some decent collets and spindle mounted chuck. It will give far more accurate results in turning operations than using a 3jaw or 4jaw and save a lot of time too. I stand by what I said in my previous post, (rightly or wrongly), if your just starting out then all the other gimmicks of tooling can be looked at in the future, a single tool post holder, and plenty of shim material won't set you back hardly anything, a decent collet chuck and collets cost a lot and are very convenient for holding small pieces of round bar accurately with hardly any need to dial in the work piece. If it was my decision I'd forget it, unless I found a decent one for half the price, plus with a collet chuck, and an angle plate you'll be able to make your own by milling the dovetails on the lathe, and make as many tool holders as you like.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

I would've thought that it's a given that using a QCTP is a nice thing to have. So if you can't buy one, why not make one?

Michael W

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Posted by Thor on 01/10/2017 13:54:46:

I agree with Neil, the tangential toolholders are good and it is up to you to decide whether its worth £82.I made my own tangential toolholders and use them a lot.

Thor

Any guides on how to make them? I very much like to make my own rather than buy them…

Sorry for the hijack!

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Bazyle on 01/10/2017 12:56:24:

Yes a QCTP is nice, when you can afford it but most of the people new to the hobby are on a budget and there are just so many things that are more necessary to start with.

A QCTP is the best value piece of lathe tooling I've bought. My last job was to turn a 14mm spigot, thread half of it M14, and part off leaving 5mm of the original 30mm bar on the unthreaded end. With the turning and facing, runout groove, threading, chamfering and parting off that's five tool changes for just one simple part. I made four of them. Having the tools ready to drop in place is part of working efficiently. I'll save my patience for the occasions when I can't work smarter.

I use a Dickson clone on my WM250, that was also on the mini-lathe I had first. I currently have 13 tool-holders, and I buy a couple more each time I order other stuff from any of the suppliers who stock them.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Chris,

You can find a description of the tangential toolholder I made for my small lathe here.

From Mike's workshop, and Gadgetbuilder's version. A build log at MEM.

Thor

[Author]

Posts