Old Lathe

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Good question

After 10 years with a Drummond M I aint got a clue about the gears

From lathes.co.uk

As on all small Drummond lathes the changewheels were 14 DP with a 14.5 degrees pressure angle; today, unfortunately, the standard pressure angle for gears is 20 degrees so ones "off-the-shelf" will not match and, if new gears are required, they have to be specially made. However, the gears from all 3.5-inch flat bed lathes from 1902 to 1946 will fit.

Edited By Ady1 on 02/01/2019 10:54:15

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The gears that go on the quadrant to drive the leadscrew are usually termed the change gears. AFAIK they are the same gears as the round-bed as far as DP, bore etc but had a different selection of gear teeth numbers. The Yahoo Group's File section has lists of the various gears for various model Drummonds. Look for the section in FILES called CHANGEWHEELS.

Pretty sure the quadrant would be different as the headstocks are totally different.

Back gears are the two gears on a common spindle that sit behind the headstock on an eccentric spindle to be swung into mesh with the two gears on the main spindle for slow rpm work.

Edited By Hopper on 02/01/2019 11:16:27

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

Hopper my apologies for incorrectly calling them back gears ! Yes its change gears and quadrant I meant its just that there is a round bed for spare or repair on ebay which I was hoping I could use parts from for an M type.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

round bed for spare or repair on ebay which I was hoping I could use parts from for an M type.

Totally different lathes, the gears are the only swappable item

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

So the one on Ebay is spare or repair £25 the main spindle has snapped at the chuck end! So is it worth the money just for the change gears and them possibly sell other bits if I can or get new main spindle ( No motor )

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Ian Usmar on 02/01/2019 12:01:31:

So the one on Ebay is spare or repair £25 the main spindle has snapped at the chuck end! So is it worth the money just for the change gears and them possibly sell other bits if I can or get new main spindle ( No motor )

If that is the only damage, at that price it is a repairable lathe – working round beds are up for between £200 (OK) and £500 (silly)

So you could probably more than make your money on a spares/repair one. The change wheels seem to go on eBay for between £5 and £12 unless unusual (eg metric conversion)

Important reminder – The pins that link wheels together on a Drummond are tapered and while they will drive or press out, trying to do it from the wrong side the taper will split the gear in two!

 

 

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 02/01/2019 13:49:33

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

OK next question the chuck end has a large drill chuck which is held within a collet which is screw fit the question is is it liable to be just a screw fit or possibly be grub screws. I also assume normal right hand thread that end. I know its difficult to see but wondering if anyone else has had same thing. Bonus no chuck but have collet holder.

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

Hopefully these photos may help The 3rd one is the actual collet

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Your collet chuck adaptor should screw off the spindle. It's a right hand thread and normally no grub screws involved.

The round bed would be worth 25 quid if it has change gears with it. The gears sell for up to 12 quid each on eBay so if it includes a good few it could be worth buying just for the gears alone. I doubt that any other part will fit your lathe though.

Try to find out what number of teeth on all the gears, as I believe the round bed had a 10tpi leadscrew that led to odd numbers of gear teeth, whereas the 8tpi leadscrew on the M type uses 20 through to 65 teeth in steps of 5. Only makes a difference if y ou plan to do screwcutting of course. For general feed for turning, all you need is a three large gears and three small gears, typically 20T, 20T, 25T, 60T 65T 65T or something close-ish to that.

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

Can anyone enlighten me ref the colour, is this a original colour have had a look and seems to be only the one coat?

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

So I Ann now the proud owner of a Drummond but I have more questions well two at the moment, 1 My serial number has an "A" at the end any idea what it means? And 2 the tail stock as a small chuck in it but there is no through way to knock it out with a drift what's the easiest way of removal or should the tail stock not be closed off ??

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Ian, the tail stock barrel should have a 3/8" clearance hole through its length and a drift is used to remove anything that is used in it.

Regards Nick.

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

Thanks for your reply Nick the issue I have is it does not !!!! Any suggestions on removing said chuck! I could then workout how deep I will need to drill to make it workable with a drift !

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Ian, that seems a bit odd, have you wound it out to see if there is a slot in the barrel for a flat tapered drift? Maybe someone has made a new barrel for it at sometime and have only made a taper deep enough for the chuck to fit, or they have turned the end to fit either a screw on or tapered chuck. If it is a normal chuck with a tapered arbor, you could try cutting a slot in a flat bar wide enough to fit over the short bit of the arbor between the barrel and the chuck and then draw the barrel back with the wheel, so that the flat bar will be pushed onto the tailstock body. If the barrel won't go any further into the tailstock body, then you could make another flat bar with a slot to fit over the barrel, thick enough to make up the difference. Another option would be to make a pair of slotted wedges that will fit between the end of the barrel and the chuck, but use them opposite each other, so that you put a parallel force between the end of the barrel and the chuck. One problem you may have though is, if the chuck is a tapered fit onto the arbor, that may come off before the arbor comes out of the barrel. If your left with the arbor stuck in the barrel, then maybe you will be able to drill a hole crossways in the arbor for a pin, far enough away from the end of the barrel to get your slotted flat bar/s or wedges or a piece of tube in.

Hope this helps.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 07/01/2019 06:37:59

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

Nick thanks for this I have tried putting something between the barrel and the chuck and wound it back to put pressure on it with no effect. I even tried a small pair stilsons on the drill chuck both clockwise and anti clockwise again with effect. I tried a little heat again nothing. I am running out of options although I may remove the tailstock completely and taking it from there, unless you have any other ideas. I am starting to thing it may not be a Total Drummond ( The colour is definitely incorrect !!)

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Wind the tailstock right in so the screw that is pulling it in eventually hits the back of the taper that has the chuck on it and pushes it out. This is normal on many lathes, eg Boxford, Although most Drummonds have the hole down the middle there are some exceptions. Sometimes the drill chuck taper is too short for this to happen.
If this doesn't shift it skhave to persuade to come out.crew the barrel right out. There will be a screw in the side that stops the barrel rotating, undoing that may still not allow the barrel to completely come out if there is a little slug of brass at the bottom of the hole which you will have to persuade to come out.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Ian, below are a few photos of my Myford tailstock barrel, the first one shows the front end with the No. 1 Morse taper and the keyway on the side of the barrel to stop rotation. Just to the left can be seen the pin through the body, which has a key cut on the inside end which will prevent the barrel from coming out of the front end. this pin doesn't seem to be easy to remove, but yours may have a screw in it as Bazyle suggests, if it doesn't have a screw, you will have to take some drastic action and cut the chuck off to enable you to remove the barrel from the back end.

To remove it from the back end you will have to remove the two screws that hold the keep plates in position.

These should be accessible through a hole in the handle.

Once they are removed, the barrel and handle will be able to be removed from the back end.

Once removed you should be able to deal with the barrel, but of course you might need another lathe or take it to someone who can do it for you, or find another barrel from somewhere.

I'm beginning to think this might be what I call a Johnny Cash job, i.e. his song "One piece at a time" where he nicked a whole car from the factory he worked in and had problems with changes in designs over the years. Maybe this lathe was got by the same means, but the guy got the boot before he got all the right bits and the right colour paint.

Regards Nick.

P.S. I'm not saying that Johnny Cash actually nicked a car from a factory he worked in, but you get the idea from his song.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 07/01/2019 10:09:06

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 07/01/2019 10:00:24:

To remove it from the back end you will have to remove the two screws that hold the keep plates in position.

These should be accessible through a hole in the handle.

Once they are removed, the barrel and handle will be able to be removed from the back end.

Once removed you should be able to deal with the barrel, but of course you might need another lathe or take it to someone who can do it for you, or find another barrel from somewhere.

.

Thanks for posting those photos, Nick

When I dismantled my Drummond round-bed tailstock, I was initially surprised by the appearance of the 'keep plates' … but yours look [almost] identical.

Presumably someone at Drummond Bros. was employed to break cast iron washers in half, and keep them in pairs.

[ if I recall correctly, some engine con-rods were 'mated' in a similar fashion ]

.

MichaelG.

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

Gents thanks for this but I will need to extract it from the front end due to the chuck that is the issue and will not I don't think come through the tailstock. Am I correct in thinking that I need to remove the pin near the front and if I did and then strip the rear it will come out in one piece and allow me to work on removal of the offending chuck?

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

The other option is to try and drill through the back of the tailstock I believe it should be approx. 51/2 inches in length so a small pilot hole after checking length see if it should break through if not it might end up cutting the offending chuck off !! Bit brutal for my liking to be truthful.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Ian, if you can get the pin out you shouldn't need to strip the rear end out at all as the barrel will screw completely out of the handle. The only thing stopping the barrel coming out at the front end is the pin. If it is like my one, you are likely to find it difficult to remove, as I think it is a press fit in the hole, but if it is a screw you should be able to remove it.

To try and drill it from the back will most likely prove difficult to keep it in line with the taper at the front end, 5 1/2" is a deep hole to drill at the best of times and wandering off centre is very likely. You need to decide which is the lesser of the two evils, having to replace the chuck and arbor or the risk of ruining the barrel completely. Trying to remove a pressed in pin from the outside could result in breaking the tailstock body, so it is for you to decide which way to go.

Regards Nick.

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

Nick believe it or not the pin came out very easily! I think you miss understood me drilling it I was hoping that I could break through if it was machined almost all the way. The measurement I was given of 51/2 inches was someone else's tail stock if so I reckon on 21/3 or so inches of thread. I have now stripped it except drawing the tail stock through as there seem to be a couple of tight spots for which it has been suggested a clean with emery cloth and oil, so that's my next step.

Regards

Ian

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Ian, it's good to hear that you are successfully progressing, just keep washing it with penetrating oil and working it back and forth and it should soon come out.

Regards Nick.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi Ian any luck with tailstock. It's nice to know if you have any progress.

David

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

So tailstock now removed but still have the issue the stuck drill chuck I have tried heat and cold and its not budged. Any suggestions was thinking soak in some derv!!

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