Name plates

[John LintornParticipant @johnlintorn87585]

Has anyone any idea the best way to go about making a pair of name plates for my 5″ Tich? I want to name it Chuggabug but a company online wanted £220 for a pair of plates 1″ x 3″ with 1/16″ raised lettering. I think that is extortionate. What are the thoughts of you guys?

[John LintornParticipant @johnlintorn87585]

[Peter KroghParticipant @peterkrogh76576]

Here's one:

http://www.gasenginemagazine.com/gas-engines/diy-brass-nameplates

Pete

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Richard S2 described how he made some lower down this thread;

**LINK**

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi John,

You ought to be able to make your own for less than £20. There was a time when you could pop into the local pharmascist and buy ferric chloride solution. Now you can buy it on ebay very cheaply.

John Baguley (Baggo) has one of the best modern descriptions of how to make them on his excellent website.

Cheers,

Julian

[Roger HeadParticipant @rogerhead16992]

My only experience with chemical etching is making pcbs for electronics (I've made hundreds over the years), so it's all shallow etching. To obtain 1/16" deep etching of acceptable quality (clean steep edges on your lettering, lack of undercut, etc) might not exactly be a doddle in a 'kitchen-table' type of setup.

I'd suggest a reasonable bit of googling first, and enough material for lots of testing. I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

Just my two cents…

Roger

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Sounds like you need someone with a 3D printer to make a pattern followed by a decent foundry.

I once had some similar sized nameplates made using a perspex pattern from Eyre & Baxter in Sheffield and the services of a brass founders in Nottinghamshire.

I supplied Eyre & Baxter with a transparency with a black image showing the raised portions and I think an article was published in ME many years ago.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Piercing saw and some solder is another option. Print out your wording, stick it to a bit of 16swg brass and cut out the letters then solder to some 3/16" brass that hass been milled out to 1/8" leaving a border around the outside.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Ought to be possible to reverse engrave from say 1/8" brass plate by CNC. Do you have a drawing?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Lintorn on 27/12/2016 23:18:46:
Has anyone any idea the best way to go about making a pair of name plates for my 5" Tich? I want to name it Chuggabug but a company online wanted �220 for a pair of plates 1" x 3" with 1/16" raised lettering. I think that is extortionate. What are the thoughts of you guys?

..

Thoughts:

The 'National Living Wage' is currently set at £7.20 per hour, and a 'Craftsman' might earn [say] five times that.

A company will have significant overheads on top of that; and should also expect to make some profit.

So … How long would it take you to make them ?

£220 sounds uncomfortably high when you're buying, but may be more reasonable than you think.

MichaelG.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

John, I've sent you a PM.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Cold cast bronze might be another way to go about it… either chasing out a mould or the extra step of carving a wax positive to make a mould from?

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I have sold my Taylor Hobson pantograph but someone on here may have one. Old hat now with so much CNC capacity around. This is an ideal hobby CNC mill job, you may get an offer of help from someone close.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Pantograph engraver, set up time about 30 minutes, engraving and cut out time at least 2.5 hours. £30 an hour so cost about £90 plus metal.

Obviously CNC has overtaken the Pantograph set up and I think that it would cost just about the same. You set it up and walk away till it's done.

£220 sounds as if they do not want to do it, I was offered a job with masses of small type to do but declined by doubling the hourly rate. It was a brass plate with his life history on it. I asked an Alarm Company to replace two batteries on a wall mounted alarm, cost £147, no thank you, did it myself at about £10 including battery.

Clive

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Just a thought John, I notice that Reeves sell brass stamped numbers and letters at between 30p and £3 each. These could easily be soldered to a home made nameplate.

Mick

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Hi John;

I CNC cut some plates for a friends' locomotive. I did this by feeding in a jpg file into LinuxCNC, which can read jpg files. I used engraving cutters, and took it slowly. It worked very well. In the photo attached, the plates required the name/surround on "flat brass" for fitting on the end of bogie bolsters.

JohnS.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

No one has mentioned finishing.

The enamel used on professional plates is very expensive but works and lasts far better than paint which is what most home brewed plates use.

The plates that John Alexander has done above are very nice but hours away from being finished.

Possibly as much time again ?

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Posted by Roger Head on 28/12/2016 01:07:28:

My only experience with chemical etching is making pcbs for electronics (I've made hundreds over the years), so it's all shallow etching. To obtain 1/16" deep etching of acceptable quality (clean steep edges on your lettering, lack of undercut, etc) might not exactly be a doddle in a 'kitchen-table' type of setup.

I'd suggest a reasonable bit of googling first, and enough material for lots of testing. I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

Just my two cents…

Roger

I did this which was my first attempt and turned out good enough to use,using a cheap samsung b/w laser printer , some mylar drafting film ,an iron and some ferric chloride. It is impossible to get very deep but was good enough for the south bend gearbox plate.

[John LintornParticipant @johnlintorn87585]

I have messaged you back John Haine!
I had a look at the letters on A Jack reeves but they don’t look like raised letters to me Mick H.
The plates that John Alexander have made look very nice!
I will have a look into this photo etching lark…

[Roger HeadParticipant @rogerhead16992]

Hi Mark, that plate looks really good . As you say, getting any real depth of etching consistently is very difficult, but if a shallow etch is acceptable, then getting sharp, high-resolution linework is quite straightforward.

I am particularly interested in the red and black infill that you have achieved – could you please give us some details on your method and materials for achieving that, and also some close-ups of the finished plate.

My 13 x 40 has no plate for the threading dial, only a table (in a poorly photo-copied manual) that looks like it was scratched out by a one-legged chicken clutching a blunt pencil! That page in the manual is now deteriorating through constant reference, so I've been 'thinking about doing something' (i.e. procrastinating) for a while.

Roger

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Posted by John Stevenson on 28/12/2016 12:50:37:The plates that John Alexander has done above are very nice but hours away from being finished.

Possibly as much time again ?

As they are to represent cast letters on the end of a cast steel truck (bogie) bolster, you are absolutely right – there is a lot of work left for the recipient. Mind you, he's got it finished, tender is wheeled, just needs leaf springs and a few more bits and pieces (backup headlight, etc) and this "Canadian" tender is complete.

I have seen a few CNC nameplates done by others "over here" that are very good.

If you just want name plates, and you realize life is short, and you are not interested in the process by itself maybe as has been mentioned – just purchase the things!

JohnS.

[John Ockleshaw 1Participant @johnockleshaw1]

Hello John,

Photo engravers often required deep etches especially for embossing plates used by bookbinders working with leather.

Eric Chambers in his book Camera and Process Work, still available, describes the process well,

Briefly – you require a hard "paint roller" say 1/2" diameter beverage tube on a metal core, wide enough to span the smallest dimension of your name plate.

A piece of plate glass with a very thin coating of letterpress ink on it.

Roll your paint roller in several directions on the glass until it also has a very thin uniform coating of ink.

Some bitumen dust similar to what is used in lazer printers, a tray for it and a very soft brush.

A hot plate, to fuse the bitumen dust.

Then after the first etch of your nameplate, say 0.003" deep, wash and dry the plate with hot air. Roll the plate with letterpress ink, sprinkle it with bitumen powder, gently brush the powder in four directions against the sides of the etching, brush off any loose powder. Put the nameplate on the hot plate and fuse the bitumen. Return the plate to the etching bath and go another 0.005" deep. Roll-up again, powder, fuse and etch, repeating until you have your reguired depth.

The flanks of the lettering and lines will have a smooth outward curve without under cutting.

Regards John

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

The department I work in has a cost rate of £70/hour and is lower than some of the other departments. Three hours of work plus materials plus some profit and £220 is reasonable. The cost rate consists of pay, tool costs, capital payback, factory overheads, consumables and possibly some things I have missed. Pay has to cover productive workers and non-productive such as store men, cleaners, designers, buyers, sales etc. Factory overheads includes fuel for heating and lighting plus running machinery and repairs and maintenance. Consumables are items such as paper towels, drills and welding electrodes. Tools are anything from spanners up to jigs and fixtures. Capital items would be expensive purchases such as a CNC machine (usually with a resale value).

Someone with a home workshop has all these costs but does not account for them in the way a business has to. If you go from this being a hobby to trying to run it as a way of making a living you may find you would have a similar cost rate.

I regularly get people asking me to make something for them. If it something that interests me then I make it, otherwise I point out that it is going to take 8 hours of my weekend off work to do it so ask what hourly rate do they think is reasonable for this work. It doesn't take them long to realise that their small, and to them simple, item is going to cost them more than they are willing to pay.

Martin

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I ran a Tool making company for many years, not owned I was works manager. In the early days before we went with CNC mills/Spark eroders/Wire eroders ETC. a good rule of thumb was to set the charge out rate at around three times the hourly rate paid to the men.

The capitol investment and learning curve of CAD/CAM threw that basis out. I retired over three years ago when we where charging £55 per hour and struggling to make it pay but that seemed to be the maximum we could charge and still win the work. So Martins £70 is not far out. In my home workshop I usually do most jobs for other people for very little over the material cost, just enough to cover the electric and consumables as it is a hobby/interest.

[Bob YouldonParticipant @bobyouldon45599]

Good afternoon John,

Have a look at http://www.johnlythgoe.com could possiably meet your requirements.

You could as someone has suggested, print off from a computer your requirements, stick the printed name onto brass sheet, cut out the letterrs and then sweet them onto your backing plate. A friend built a 3½″ gauge GWR Castle and made his plates that way, "Tiverton Castle" twice! I also made my "Portishead" plates for my 5" gauge Terrier the same way but in both cases it was in the days before home computers and printers etc.

Regards,

Bob

[Author]

Posts