Is it worth adding a power feed

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 12/09/2015 16:03:59:

why does it seem to be assumed that (on the mill) power-feed/DRO is an either/or decision? I have both and would be without either.

not everyone has unlimited funds……….even though still working I can't divert all my earnings into the workshop. There are probably loads of things I have bought for the workshop that perhaps I should have passed over in favour of that DRO but I don't do cost/benefit analysis on my every move at home.

Does anyone need a DRO? I bet the moon lander was built on machines without DROs.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

You do need a dro on a mill if you want to eliminate scrap or to save time on machining. A lathe does not need a dro as you are not pitching out lots of holes.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi Bazyle

"Does anyone need a DRO? I bet the moon lander was built on machines without DROs."

No of course not – just as no one NEEDS a mattress on their bed. When one gets the mattress however one soon sees the advantages and then wonders how it was possible to manage without!

Norman

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Poor analogy. It is the mattress that is the bed and the frame is a modern invention but mankind did without both for millennia. I'd like to drive a Rolls Royce as it is so much better than a Fiesta so must pop out and buy one on Monday while I'm getting my DROs.

I just think beginners should not be encouraged into splashing out on gizmos that simply are not a magic bullet and may even prevent them acquiring skill and knowledge through using a more basic but adequate machine.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

The question should be want not need, I for one wanted a DRO and auto feed, lathe has auto feed (Boxford AUD)and I added auto feed to the X axis on one of the mills (Marlow) along with a DRO X, Y and Z. I could get by without them BUT it makes things so much easier and faster. Not sure auto feed on a mini lathe or a DRO is worth the effort but with all things possible but even with them you still need to have some understanding of what you are trying to achieve.

"The impossible we can do miracles take a little longer"

Bob

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

The only thing about DRO's is it eliminates backlash and takes all the mental arithmetic out of marking holes/points before drilling etc. The control unit does all the calculations and allows zero resets and multi hole placement and milling of curves etc. Go for it, very worthwhile. I forgot the 5 micron accuracy, not that anyone needs that but 0.02 is OK.

As for DRO's on a lathe, no thank you, unless the bed was 5 meters long.

Clive

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Well Bazyle – poor analogy maybe – although I suspect most folk would take my point. Coming from a generation when none of these "modern" devices were available it has been necessary to learn the old way. I am certainly not advocating the DRO as a "must have" enhancement but it is a very useful ( nice to have ) item – and may well save spoiled work – viz David C's post. ( The DRO is also easier on the eyes than trying to read those little graduations on the dials – oh and yes the problem of backlash in the feed screws is eliminated.

 

You say that "beginners should not be encouraged into splashing out on gizmos that simply are not a magic bullet "

I'm certainly not doing that – merely sharing my own experience. As with all posts on this forum the reader must assess posts and make up their own mind.

Norman

[JonParticipant @jon]

Both Norman and Bazyle have valid points but my suggestion is learn the ropes first.

Small mill ie sub 14" table I wouldn't bother with a power feed unless can alter and adapt a suitable motor. Larger mills its more a priority over DRO.

Most power feeds are on the fly where can instantly adjust the feed rate to suit application in 1 second or less, no gearboxes of old. Wouldn't recommend the left side hang off type you may need to drop long items where its in the way. Tradition is the right side feed since something like 95% are right handed. May need to adapt/lengthen leadscrew, make a bracket to suit machine with offset, buy conversion parts, power feed unit £300+ and transformer running 110V £50.

Vertical elevation packed on mine 4 years ago and dread unlocking gibs, winding up and locking gibs back down every time.

Various other functions can be done with a dro but not worth while. Used PCD once in 10 years no other function interests or is profitable for me to do by that method. No need to mark and punch hole positions just plough straight in, job done.
Dro on lathe can be more worth while, tool offsets for those that have more than one cutting tool, lengths X with crossfeed Y, equally as efficient is tailstock dro as a time saver. If write coordinates down its as good as any cnc with human error.

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

I was quite happy to retire at 61 – now am 69 – and have been too busy to go to work ever since. Miss the work bit not one iota. Getting enough shed time tricky but, Senior Management can put a blighter on it! Would have freaked out if I had continued to 78, so well done Clive for persisting that long. Now go enjoy yourself doing what you want to do for a change.

My lathe came with power feed on both longitudinal and cross travel, wouldn't be without it, and have fitted power feed on the X-axis on the mill, it was going cheap at Axminster, I think they were destocking as the French say, and flogged it off at a third off. Again wouldn't be without it now. Fitted one of Arc's cheaper DRO systems to X & Y axis on the mill, and a stand alone DRO on the Z axis too, last Christmas and have been thrilled with it. Doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the more up-market systems but does very well enough for me. Another one of those "how did I manage before" items.

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 13/09/2015 22:01:20

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Its important not to underplay the ease of learning aspect when it come to power feeds. Manual feeding just so over a distance to get an good uniform surface finish is a definite skill. Which, like all skills, needs time, practice (preferably concentrated) and ideally advice and supervision from a mentor able to see what you are doing. A lot to pick up on your own if you have no handy mentor. Especially if the learning has to be fitted in in dribs and tabs around other life commitments. Doesn't help that its different for different materials and that small errors can make big differences. Awfully easy to lock into the over correction mode bouncing from side to side of whats right getting different variations of not good enough finish. Then there is tool grind shape and sharpness nowadays inserts too to worry about. Thinking about it is a wonder that any lone hands actually manage to pick it all up and get there act together before chucking the whole worship through the window in frustration!

Power feed lets you start with book setting that are known to work so you can concentrate on getting the other stuff right. It can also be a great help when starting out to see what a feed rate really looks like. Common to want to go far too fast or far too slow.

Ultimately model engineering is about the production of good parts for a well finished model rather than development of personal skills. Leave that to the artists for whom learning and developing their particular skills and methods with old (fixed?) tech paintbrushes is an integral part of sharing their vision.

Power feed pretty much every time for me. Bridgeport 6F on the mill, only longitudinal so far but I have the parts for the other axis, and integrated feed boxes on the Smart & Brown 1024 and Pratt & Whitney Model B lathes. Wouldn't be without the three axis DRO on the Bridgeport, will be four when I get round to it. The 1024 has dual imperial metric dials with an excellent longitudinal feed indicator too and I have a good 6 position turret bed stop so I don't really miss a DRO there. If the P&W got used for more than the occasional oversize job that would probably get a DRO tho as its imperial only with no longitudinal dial.

Clive.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Posted by Clive Foster on 14/09/2015 12:15:01:

Ultimately model engineering is about the production of good parts for a well finished model rather than development of personal skills. Leave that to the artists for whom learning and developing their particular skills and methods with old (fixed?) tech paintbrushes is an integral part of sharing their vision.

Clive.

Well said

It's hard to remember that when you are up to your arse in alligators that the object of the exercise was to drain the swamp.

Bob

[egaParticipant @ega]

Has anyone mentioned the old idea of fitting a larger throw handle to the cross slide, etc? I have made up quickly-fitted extenders to both top and top slides for my larger lathe and find them helpful in obtaining better finish. I have power crossfeed on that machine and do use it but, of course, on a facing cut conventional PXF cannot give constant surface speed. Hand feeding in conjunction with judicious speed increase can give an approximation to CSS.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Do not know about large handles but auto feed on the lathe means your hands are out of the way for most of the time from hot swarf or spirals.

[egaParticipant @ega]

I have just noticed that in my post of 14/09 I said "top and top slides" when I meant cross and top slides. It looks as though the ability to correct mistakes by editing is not available at this stage.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Ega ; can you post a photo of your extenders please ? I have been thinking of doing something similar as the wheels and handles on my lathe are quite small.

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Posted by Bob Brown 1 on 14/09/2015 13:56:20:

Do not know about large handles but auto feed on the lathe means your hands are out of the way for most of the time from hot swarf or spirals.

oooooooooooooooooooooooo

Good point about handles, the operating handles on many import machines are far too small. I have an Emco milling machine. I replaced the original 3" with 5" diameter handles, the machines is much more pleasant to use, no more aching hands!

Dave

[egaParticipant @ega]

Brian John

Here is a photo of the cross slide handle on my Willson slant bed. It's a simple piece of flat MS with a hole to slip over the standard handle and another hole to receive the extension handle; the latter came from Arceuro and was modified by having its rotating centre removed and being tapped for the retaining screw. My top slide handle is made on similar lines and I was prompted to make it by a need to improve the finish of tapers. The "inspiration" may have come from the late D H Chaddock whose Quorn book has several photos of his own similar device.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Being the owner of that slant bed lathe, you know how to spell Willson!! When was it made if you do not mind me asking

K

[egaParticipant @ega]

KWIL:

Thanks for your interest (you may remember our earlier correspondence).

In my experience owners don't appear to know how to spell it either! Fortunately, search engines are alive to that although it is faintly irritating to be asked if I meant "Wilson".

My lathe is no 13582/906 and information on lathes.co.uk suggests that it is a "very late" model although, I believe, still called a Mark I. I have always understood that these lathes date from the 1960s but I should be interested in a more precise date.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by ega on 27/09/2015 17:03:20:

although it is faintly irritating to be asked if I meant "Wilson".

Even more irritating when Google says something like:

"Results for Wilson given. If you actually do want to search for Willson, click here".

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Power feeds are something that while not needed is very useful and gives a much better finish, the same with DRO's, they are not needed but once you have them and learn how to use them you miss them on a machine that doesn't have them.
Want to work in metric, easy just switch it over, then back to imperial when you want.

Steve

[Clive IndiaParticipant @cliveindia]

Posted by Bowber on 29/09/2015 09:40:02:

Power feeds are something that while not needed is very useful and gives a much better finish, the same with DRO's, they are not needed but once you have them and learn how to use them you miss them on a machine that doesn't have them.
Want to work in metric, easy just switch it over, then back to imperial when you want. Steve

Yes!

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