Ideal Guillotine

[OldMetallerParticipant @oldmetaller]

Greetings fellow forumites, I have a friend from the world of bookbinding who has the machine in the photographs- he believes it is an Ideal guillotine, made in Germany, and some few years old.

He wants to get the blade resharpened, it is 58cm long by 9cm deep, and presumably hardened.

He may have found somewhere in Manchester who will do this -he's waiting to find out- but in the interim, he would welcome any information on this tool that forum members could provide.

Thank you ,

John.

[OldMetallerParticipant @oldmetaller]

Sharpening question?

[Peter HallParticipant @peterhall61789]

Whatever make it is, someone's removed the safety guards. Use with care; it's more than capable of removing your friend's fingers, or anyone else's for that matter.

Pete

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

I came across these guillotines some 30 or 40 years ago. Judging by the first photograph, the blade is nearing the end of it's life. The securing screws are at the top of the slots. Make sure that it is supported along it's full length when being reground or it will end up sharp at the ends but not in the middle.

Roy

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

John, I used to have an old manual guillotine for bookbinding, but gave it away. I didn't like the idea of it in the home.

I now only have a Victorian cast iron board chopper with a 3ft long, scissor-style blade. It won't cut paper stacks, of course, but it's indispensable for cutting hard mill board.

Like your friend, I live in Manchester. I've had my board chopper blade sharpened once – about fifteen years ago at Easicut Precision Grinding in Sharston, M22. They did a decent job. I don't know how good they are today, but your friend might try them if he hasn't already found someone else.

Bookbinders in Manchester aren't numerous. Give your friend my good wishes for success in his chosen pursuit.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 15/09/2020 18:08:56

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

I worked on the electric versions quite a lot in the past

the manual ones don’t really have any safety features as such

the blades are either carbon steel or high speed Steel on ideals so not hardened

anything you need to know ask away

blade sharpening at a couple of places in sheffield

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’ve used a couple of Guillotines like that. The blades when new are extremely sharp and should be handled with great care. I bought a new blade for one of them and it wasn’t expensive.

[Peter BellParticipant @peterbell11509]

John,

If you cannot find anywhere handy Kennedy grinding have a branch at Unit 1, Bayley Industrial Estate Stalybridge SK15 1PL, they also run a collection service.

Looks in nice condition but as Roy says the mounting screws are at the end of there slots indicating the knife is worn out. Alternativly it may need adjusting and as it looks a manual machine the knife may have been dropped too low to compensate for being blunt. I've had knives which have had the holes elongated to give a bit extra life and some knives have extra holes from new. The knives are often only hardened on the cutting edge and repeated sharpening reveals a softer material and the knife goes blunt very quickly.

Peter

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Ian Parkin on 15/09/2020 18:19:02:

the manual ones don’t really have any safety features as such.

Both of the ones I used had fixed clear plastic guards on one side of the blade and movable guards on the other side. Without the guard in place the operating handle couldn’t be moved. Without these safety features I doubt they’d be able to sell them.

This is similar to the ones I used.

**LINK**

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’ve just remembered, that red thing in the base is a consumable plastic cutting strIp that the blade comes down onto. You can rotate it four times and flip it end to end giving you eight working faces. Eventually they wear though and need to be replaced. It does take a lot of cuts though so your friends may still be serviceable, just worth knowing if it’s not obvious in use.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I wonder if it could be sharpened by hand with a diamond lap of about 600 or 800 grit?

[Peter BellParticipant @peterbell11509]

Yes the cutting stick is important and readily available. When its worn the knife works in a groove rather than on a flat surface.

Maybe possible to hone it a bit but a properly ground knife makes a big difference.

Peter

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

It doesn't look exactly antique, maybe new blades can be obtained.

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Blades easily available but about £150 now

its probably a 1980’s machine that one so not old

[OldMetallerParticipant @oldmetaller]

Wow! Thank you gentlemen! Once again, the forum comes up trumps!

I'll pass this on to my friend, I'm sure he will be pleased at all this information!

John.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Do these blades have a straight cutting edge?

A slight curve might help with the cut but would perhaps be more difficult to sharpen.

[Peter BellParticipant @peterbell11509]

The knife has a straight edge, Ive only ever seen straight ones. The knife moves doesn't downwards in a straight line but moves side ways as it descends and cuts.

Peter

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Peter Bell on 16/09/2020 12:47:59:

The knife has a straight edge, Ive only ever seen straight ones. The knife moves doesn't downwards in a straight line but moves side ways as it descends and cuts.

Peter

Thank you. The movement you describe would seem to give a progressive, slicing cut – clever stuff!

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by ega on 17/09/2020 00:15:22:

Thank you. The movement you describe would seem to give a progressive, slicing cut – clever stuff!

So would an angled straight edge …. as on a metal-cutting guillotine.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 17/09/2020 01:24:27:

So would an angled straight edge …. as on a metal-cutting guillotine.

Or as on the original head-cutting ones.

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

I was at one of my customers and did a short video of a real sized paper cutting guillotine

this is a polar mohr Guillotine with side lifts air tables jogger and palpating attachments

see how easily the operator moves around perhaps 80 kg of paper and the power with which the machine cuts.

this has a 5kw motor spinning up a flywheel weighing 300 kg

the knife in this one is a tungsten tipped blade which lasts about 2 weeks whereas a HSS one would only last a day or so

i don’t know whether i can post links now but search on YouTube for “polar guillotine sheffield”

Can i post links to my video’s?

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Ian, I operated a very big powered guillotine in an institutional bindery for a time. It had very good safety features as well as incredible holding and cutting power.

One thing it was badly lacking, though, was some way of identifying the nature of the material it was about to cut. Not once but twice I managed in the nick of time to stop another operator from performing a cut when he had carelessly left a steel rule across the cut line before placing his stack of paper on top.

Does the Polar Mohr you mention have a metal detector for the cut line? If not, do any guillotines have one?

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Bill

the guillotine in my video actually tried to cut through a steel ruler and it shattered the tungsten blade about 4 inches in length

blades are about £1200 so expensive mistake

ruler survived

never seen any wrong material detectors on any paper cutting guillotines

[VicParticipant @vic]

I worked in Reprographics many years ago and my old boss told me one of his previous employers had a large power guillotine for cutting paper plans. Some plans however were printed on Polyester which could not be cut on the machine. One day an operator mistakenly tried to cut a large stack of Polyester plans and my boss said it put a ripple in the blade.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Amusing that in a small French town called Montmorillon in the Vienne they have several of these on display dating from the 19th century. The town was a centre of the publishing trade. Not the sort of guillotine you associate with France normally! Town well worth visiting, they also have a museum of typewriters and mechanical calculators.

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