hello, first lathe-when to buy.

[richard haighParticipant @richardhaigh43671]

Afternoon all,

I couldn't see a specific newcomers section or thread so I'm posting in here if that's alright.

I've long been into building stuff and fiddling around with motorbikes and finally, after moving house last year I've now got room to start developing a small workshop.

Having picked up various tools, grinding wheel and welder over the years, the first big purchase is a lathe. My budget is pretty restricted but for the moment I only really need small bits so am thinking of one of the mini lathes. I appreciate the joys of a larger one but unless I take a punt on an ebay purchase, that's not going to happen in the near future.

So, having looked at what's available, I've kind of settled on a Conquest from Chester. (although I'm always open to suggestions). They currently have them on offer for £399, down from £589, which sounds like a top bargain. However, I'm quite prepared to wait a little while if it's worth it. So my question is, should I buy now or wait until the Alexandra palace show in January?

Rich.

[richard haighParticipant @richardhaigh43671]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Welcome Richard,

I'm wouldn't bank on that price being beaten at a show.

You should be going to the Model Engineer Exhibition at Sandown, anyway!

Neil

[richard haighParticipant @richardhaigh43671]

Cheers Neil,

Yes, I thought that looked like it might take some beating.

I'll take a look at getting down to Sandown, but with two small people to factor in, I might struggle to find time in the run up to Christmas.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Welcome Rich

Looking at Chester's site the Conquest seems a neat little starter machine; bearing in mind what your budget is, you will also be looking to add to it tool wise, as we all have done, so you may well end up paying the same again for 'extras' (4 jaw chuck etc ?). Have also had a look at the next one up the 'Conquest Super' which may be a better buy as it has DRO's fitted to the 'X & Y' axis, as all these mini machines (& not so mini) invariably have some backlash on both the crosslide & compound slide & the DRO's will help eliminate any discrepancy, plus you can read in metric or imperial.

I note that the 'Conquest Super' is out of stock at the moment but not the 'Conquest' so depending how urgent your needs are I would hang on & for an extra £75 go for the 'Super' deal with the advantage of the DRO's… IMO. Give Chester's a ring & see when the next shipment is due… maybe due in for Xmas? or hang on 'till Ally Pally show.

Have another browse through other suppliers in the meantime… Amadeal, Warco, ArcEuro etc (usual disclaimer) for similar & for any deals they may have,( FWIW I have Warco Lathe & Mill & am pretty pleased with them) whatever you choose… enjoy! Hope this helps a little

Cheers

George

[richard haighParticipant @richardhaigh43671]

Hi George,

I did look at the conquest super, but as you say, once you've added in some tools you're looking at quite lot more investment. I think I won't have any trouble coming up with ideas for present ideas for people to get me for a good few years to come.

I did take a good look at the other ones you mentioned and was quite taken with the Warco model. To be honest, the only thing that has swung it towards Chester is their current prices.

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

In case it helps, both Chester and Warco are listed as exhibitors at the Midlands show that runs from 16th-19th October (Thursday to Sunday this week).

[richard haighParticipant @richardhaigh43671]

Unfortunately, it's the wife's birthday this weekend and much as she does like nerdy stuff, we went to the Stotfold steam rally last weekend for my birthday – meaning husband tokens may be somewhat lacking this coming weekend.

which is a shame….

[mattParticipant @matt27093]

Posted by mechman48 on 13/10/2014 14:14:24:

Welcome Rich

Looking at Chester's site the Conquest seems a neat little starter machine; bearing in mind what your budget is, you will also be looking to add to it tool wise, as we all have done, so you may well end up paying the same again for 'extras' (4 jaw chuck etc ?). Have also had a look at the next one up the 'Conquest Super' which may be a better buy as it has DRO's fitted to the 'X & Y' axis, as all these mini machines (& not so mini) invariably have some backlash on both the crosslide & compound slide & the DRO's will help eliminate any discrepancy, plus you can read in metric or imperial.

I note that the 'Conquest Super' is out of stock at the moment but not the 'Conquest' so depending how urgent your needs are I would hang on & for an extra £75 go for the 'Super' deal with the advantage of the DRO's… IMO. Give Chester's a ring & see when the next shipment is due… maybe due in for Xmas? or hang on 'till Ally Pally show.

Have another browse through other suppliers in the meantime… Amadeal, Warco, ArcEuro etc (usual disclaimer) for similar & for any deals they may have,( FWIW I have Warco Lathe & Mill & am pretty pleased with them) whatever you choose… enjoy! Hope this helps a little

Cheers

George

The DROs on the conquest super don't work the way normal DROs do. Their actually rotary encoders that count number of turns of the handle. You still get backlash between the lead screw and nut and have to take normal measures to account for it. Just something to be aware off.

Matt

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Thanks for the info Matt; wasn't aware of these being rotary encoders as not having seen them close up… 'one assumed they were standard DRO's'… Tut! Tut! oh my, assumptions! … well another thing leaned as they say

George.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

These DROs are common to many mini-lathes, do bear in mind that 95% of the time you only work in one direction when turning, unlike a mill where you regularly go back and forth, so backlash is not such a big issue for lathe DROs.

Neil

[JonParticipant @jon]

I bought one of them Conquest a few years back for some late night work to keep the noise down.

Couldn't do a single thing with it apart from file 1/8" round, too much flex and no torque due to the latest US control board(s) Though it did power a flap wheel for some woodwork.

Seems very expensive price paid £235 including metric leadscrew and two sets of everything including quick change tool posts, plastic change wheels etc.

For £400 you will something s/h that you can actually do something on, bide your time.

[richard haighParticipant @richardhaigh43671]

So not a glowing review then, Jon.

I see the benefits of buying s/h, but having been stung a couple of times with other things, I'm not feeling particularly confident about buying something as complex as a lathe that way.

I'm keeping a look out on eBay though.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hi Jon,

I am intrigued, because while I can see arguments for and against mini-lathes such as the Conquest, you're the only person I've come across who has reported issues with 'flex'. I do know that the brushed DC motors aren't perfect – that's why so many suppliers are moving to brushless DC motors, and why I converted my machine to 3-phase.

My CL300M is a essentially the same machine, though much modified. I have no problems with 'flex' even with a 1/2 hp three-phase motor and a 4" SC chuck fitted.

Turns to within 1/2 a thou over 5", and happily pulls a big pile of blue chips off hi-carbon steel at 100 rpm and 1mm depth of cut.

Whatever else the limitations of an inexpensive and relatively small machine, I don't think any of the mini-lathes lack rigidity and there are ample bearing surfaces on the slides.

Neil

[JonParticipant @jon]

I would have had no chance taking 1mm off 3/8" diameter even plastic, 4-6 thou would have been pushing it before spindle starts to slow. Could not even spin polish aluminium 4" dia 1/2" thick.

Start putting a cut on nothing happens then suddenly digs in even with gibs nipped up. Then noticed whole carriage lift away at rear, nip that up. Clincher then was seeing QR tool post flip up they are way too flimsy. Swap toolpost for a more robust direct clamping jobby then have movement (flex) from head stock or bed. Not to mention tailstock way off centre height, it was leaning back when nipped up, base wasn't even square but radiused.

Point being if I were a newbie I wouldn't have known any better trying to fight a losing ongoing battle which wasn't me.

Like anything chinese made it will even come down to the actual batch these machines are made in, some real bad, some bad and some usable. No doubt they can be made to perform ok but its a lot of work that you shouldn't have to do on a new machine, there again that's why theyre cheap for good reason. Pay a visit on an open day and take your pick from 30 to 40 customer returns all boxed plus the lesser model.

I did find a use for this lathe before parting company with it, that was to prop up a shelf it was sitting under.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I'd love for you to see my machine in action, Jon. I have actually taken 1.5mm cuts in 1" steel, but that is with the grunt of the 3-phase motor.

I have many many modifications, but aside from roller bearings the headstock, bed and slides are all original.

Neil

[JonParticipant @jon]

The difference there is serious modding which defeats the object. Money spent better put towards a decent lathe.

So you have done away with the control board, one of the weakest links on these machines. No doubt the 3ph 220v conversion with inverter would transform, but as said being chinese made the overall quality is iffy at best and will come down to the individual machine where less skimping involved. Gib strips on mine were just a bit of zinc plated bowed flat.

Buy new if no good take it back but can do a lot better for £600 plus add ons and mods.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> No doubt the 3ph 220v conversion with inverter would transform,

Only if the machine is capable of taking the increased loads. It is, but the extra work rapidly exposes poorly ground or blunt tools. Oddly, I would have expected the lower power setup to be more critical, but the truth is the basic lathe is best suited to HSS tools and relatively light cuts.

My machine was a Machine Mart return, but for all the things I have done to it, there was only one 'fault' that I have corrected, it faced slightly convex, and one fault I have not corrected which is the loose fit of the tailstock barrel (because the spilt clamp locks it repeatably in place anyway). I blew a motor because I was running it at about 60RPM facing 6"x4" cast iron with an over-rated fuse. The control board went because a long snake of swarf got into the control box – this was after about 11 or 12 years use.

I would probably not have got into the hobby if I hadn't found this machine, so I must stand up for mini-lathes as in my case at least, they have proven life-changing.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 16/10/2014 15:19:23

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Neil, better to cut a face concave than convex, but not too much. Ian S C

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Oh dear, slip of the tongue. I meant convex, I used my moderatorial powers to correct my original posting.

Neil

[richard haighParticipant @richardhaigh43671]

hmmm, a lot to consider.

Thanks for the advice, chaps. I really do like the idea of buying new and I am only going to be doing small stuff, but i'll keep an eye on ebay for second hand myfords and the like.

How easy is it to convert a Myford or something of a similar age to cut metric threads?

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Richard, Give me a call on 01305 854072, I may possibly have just the thing…having just upgraded to a Myford

Martin

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Richard, if you only want to make fastenings there is no conversion needed! Even a "metric" Myford actually has an imperial leadscrew, 8 tpi. The gear tables include instructions for approximating metric thread pitches to easily close enough to fit matching standard metric nuts using the standard leadscrew. There are several threads on this forum that cover this. It is only if you want to make long threads for leadscrews and so on that the error is significant. If you really want to make the conversion you would need a 127 tooth gear which can be fitted in the train to cut exact metric threads, but it's a faff and not worth the trouble by and large.

as well as Myford you could consider Boxfords which are easily of similar quality but as they were never such a popular amateur machine may be cheaper.

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

You can find Boxfords much cheaper than Myfords, and they are a better lathe in EVERY aspect.

[richard haighParticipant @richardhaigh43671]

Cheers Martin,

When are you around?

Thanks for the boxford advise, I’ll keep an eye out.

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