Harrogate Showground

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

I am hearing a rumour that the Harrogate Showground will be hosting a show in early 2023.

Is there any truth in it?

Brian

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Is this the one that is recently in Doncaster?

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, well one of the usual main traders told me so at the Midlands show last month.

Regards Nick.

[elanmanParticipant @elanman]

I do hope so, 22 miles vs 251 miles to Leamington makes for a much better trip.

Cheers

John

Edited By elanman on 16/11/2022 15:20:31

[mike TParticipant @miket56243]

If you happen to live on the south coast then is 300 miles to Harrogate v 120 miles to Leamington.

Mike

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Was Harrogate a better venue than Donny? I’ve been to Harrogate but only for other exhibitions/shows.

Further by about 35 miles for me, but I much prefer the Midland show than I did Donny, so it will likely not affect me as parking in Harrogate can be a pain/expense – unless the site for this show is not in the centre of Harrogate.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

No parking charged at Harrogate Yorkshire Showground on the southern side of town.

Edited By KWIL on 16/11/2022 17:19:14

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

If it is being held at Harrogate, parking is on the showground and there is plenty of it. The exhibition will be inside the halls with hot running for traction engines outside

And yes, this is the venue that was transferred to Doncaster a few years ago. It would suit me nicely if it does come back, it is a much nicer venue

Brian

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

It would suit me nicely if it does come back, it is a much nicer venue

Nicer maybe, but it is a dog of a place to get into and out of – the local roads cannot cope with the volumes of traffic generated by shows there.

Last exhibition I visited there was a Northern Shooting Show, where it took 2 hours to que from the A1 to getting parked (and that was arriving at the A1 exit before 7.30 am) & the Great Yorkshire Show basically gridlocks the roads for miles in every direction, even with the so-called "traffic management" that closes roads & instiutes a one-way system.

Donnington Park seemed to work best for me, particularly when Myfords ran their Open Day at the same time. Easy to get to Myford first, then easy to get to Donnington from Myfords & easy to get out to the M1 for home afterwards.

Without better trade support than has been apparent for the last few years, I don't think I will be bothering.

Nigel B.

[BallistolParticipant @ballistol]

“Last exhibition I visited there was a Northern Shooting Show, where it took 2 hours to que from the A1 to getting parked (and that was arriving at the A1 exit before 7.30 am) & the Great Yorkshire Show basically gridlocks the roads for miles in every direction, even with the so-called "traffic management" that closes roads & instiutes a one-way system.”

Was that this year?
We attended the same show this year and it ran like clockwork with no queues coming into or out of the show. Granted, in previous years it was horrific, but they must have made some changes as the attendance this year was a record.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I'm surprised you had such difficulty getting into the show-ground but it might depend on the size of the show and numbers it attracts, of course. Also you might have been caught by commuter traffic, unless you visited at the weekend. I can see the Great Yorkshire Show could snarl the whole area up though.

My approach is from the East, leaving the A1(M) at Weatherby; and on the exhibitions I've attended in the past I enjoyed easy, steady progress to enter the ground. The real queue was for that roundabout in the town centre, on the way out West as I would drive over to the Dales for the weekend.

Timings help of course. Leaving home about 6am, I'd arrive quite late in the Friday morning so light traffic, and leave at closing-time but that does enter the town's N-S commuter traffic.

'Tis a long way for me – about 300 miles from my South coast home, but I combine it with a weekend in Yorkshire anyway.

So here's to Harrogate… I will go back there, but not Doncaster whose racecourse is such a nightmare to find I nearly gave up, but managed to occupy the one remaining space in the car-park; and certainly vowed 'never again'.

[Are nightmares, runners in the 3:30 at Doncaster…. 3:30 a.m. that is…? ]

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Traffic is a problem at Harrogate I must agree, but so it is becoming everywhere.

Other than the comment made by Nicholas Farr passing on a word from a trader, I had hoped to have some more definitive news about whether or not Harrogate will be used this coming year. Nothing official yet it seems

Brian

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I have just looked at the web-site [ eventcentre.co.uk ] for what now calls itself, very blandly, the "Yorkshire Event Centre".

No "Great": have they demoted the venue or the county? They must have engaged Branding Consultants.

It lists only events from October 2022 to February 2023, at only one a month; one a trade-only fair; and already two months out of date.

it gives no hints how it earns its keep between the listed exhibitions, nor of any agricultural and equine significance I imagine were its origins. Though the ariel photo seems to show sheep grazing its lawns!

The centre does though seem to have increased its catering facilities from one cafeteria to two, plus a "farm shop" and cafe somewhere in the grounds.

The web-site also gives useful travel information and an offer to e-post you details of up-coming events. (I prefer to ask organisations directly, and I have added its site to my index.)

'''

I'm still puzzled by the complaints about traffic. I can only assume the congestion mentioned is a matter of time of day because I have previously found Harrogate's show-ground very easy to reach, from the A1M via Wetherby. And on a weekday, at 300 miles from home.

Doncaster was a lesson learnt, but I have never even considered trying to drive to the London-area major exhibition venues: Alexandra Palace, Sandown Park, and Brooklands used for one show. I have always visited them as a passenger in a coach, or with friends able to navigate and drive in very busy cities.

The way things are going though, it's quite likely the days of large-scale cultural events within cities are passing; killed by ever-increasing urbanite costs, not least the "congestion charge"; and for London now, decisions to move major national arts institutions far away from the Capital.

This could of course be good news for the out-of-town centres like "The Fosse" and the demoted Great Yorkshire Showground – provided their managers are not greedy enough to kill the golden goose by excessive trade-stand rents and ticket prices – and for smaller regional exhibitions that could use schools or universities*.

Though that would not help things like English National Opera!

+++++

+ Weymouth Model Railway Association recently held an exhibition in the school whose grounds are the home of the local MES; and we of the lattter operated on both days as a sort of "guest exhibitor".

On Universities, some do book out parts of their premises to outside events in the Summer holiday; but they might not all have large halls suitable for model-engineering or other craft shows at national scale.

Still,, it's worth a thought…

Could our hobby run its own national-scale show?

It is a lot of hard work and I will admit straight away I would not be up to helping nowadays beyond being among the sweeper-uppers at the end; but it is not entirely impossible, and if large enough might even attract some of the traders who no longer patronise the major commercially-run shows.

The primary difficulty is perhaps the physical space capable of handling very heavy exhibits and trade-goods including very un-miniature miniatures, machine-tools and racks of workshop auxiliaries.

I have in the past attended quite a number of national caving conferences in universities; but these events differ from ours in two ways.

Firstly, physical needs. Apart from several lecture-halls, the caving conference does find large open floor areas for trade-stands and some non-lecture activities; but such rooms in universities might not be built or be accessible for our sort of large trade- and club- stands with unevenly-distributed, very heavy, goods. Nor even sufficient in area anyway, for both sales and exhibits stands.

Secondly but not insuperably, the big "managerial" difference, which may be salient. The caving's national annual bean-feast is run by a single association; whereas model-engineering has several federations that do co-operate but are run independently, in quite different ways.

.

In the end we probably are better off with the national shows run by experienced exhibition companies renting specialist show buildings; but their biggest enemy is cost; and that will not be helped if the show-venues' focus is on maximum profit now and never mind next year. The harsh fact is that if the venue rent drives away the show companies, the ground owners could simply sell it to housing-speculators and retire on the profit.

Nevertheless, it is possible for clubs, perhaps jointly, to run local exhibitions that can attract a good range of exhibits and possibly the big-name traders. The latter might be only by modest presence rather than an acre of gleaming machinery, but it could work. For example, I was surprised but pleased to see Reeves at one of the Taunton MES shows several years ago – a long way from home for them, and not with a huge display-stand, but enough to sell fastenings and consumables, and to take orders for larger sales.

.

Meanwhile, I hope Harrogate happens……

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Mentioned this in an earlier thread, no doubt SOMEONE will find it. It IS due to be at Arrowgate in 23 and will be a combined show with Model Railway exhibition in the rebuilt hall.

Regards Ian.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Posted by Circlip on 17/11/2022 11:05:44:

Mentioned this in an earlier thread, no doubt SOMEONE will find it. It IS due to be at Arrowgate in 23 and will be a combined show with Model Railway exhibition in the rebuilt hall.

Regards Ian.

Maybe Ian you could save us the detective work in finding your comment and be kind enough to tell us when in 2023 is is planned for.

Regards Brian

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Brian Wood on 17/11/2022 11:20:06:

Posted by Circlip on 17/11/2022 11:05:44:

Mentioned this in an earlier thread, no doubt SOMEONE will find it. It IS due to be at Arrowgate in 23 and will be a combined show with Model Railway exhibition in the rebuilt hall.

Regards Ian.

Maybe Ian you could save us the detective work in finding your comment and be kind enough to tell us when in 2023 is is planned for.

Regards Brian

Louis Rex and his team ran the original Harrogate Show.

After reading Circlips comments in a different thread, I enquired about this with Louis (around 16th Oct.2022). He told me that he and his team are not organizing any show at the original Harrogate Show Ground, and that at present there is no possibility of their organizng a show elsewehere.

So, if there is a show at Harrogate, it is something else, organised by someone else.

Ketan.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Nigel, I found Alexandrea Palace was easy to drive to, but a few years ago they started having either the darts or snooker championships there at the same time as the model engineering exhibition, which made finding a suitable parking place very difficult to find, so I resorted to going by train, which is easy for me and no real difference in transport costs. Sandown Park wasn't particularly difficult, going via the M25 over the Dartford Crossing, but much more traffic Heathrow way, but was a long-winded drive, although I've not been on the M25 for several years now. Harrogate is virtually a three-hour drive for me each way, which is not something I wish to do now in a single day, and I don't wish to have an overnight stay, so if it does move back there, I'll not be going. I haven't found the Doncaster venue difficult at all to get to. I did find though, that Harrogate and Donnington venues were better for holding and navigating round the exhibitions, but I like Alexanrea Palace best of all, and Warwickshire exhibition centre is also fairly good, and not too bad a drive for me.

Regards Nick.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Is this the rumour mill re-inforced by wishful thinking? All press reports say that it is off.

I doubt if the big shows will ever return. Traditional model engineering is a declining interest.

JA

[JellyParticipant @jelly]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 16/11/2022 21:16:54:

My approach is from the East, leaving the A1(M) at Weatherby; and on the exhibitions I've attended in the past I enjoyed easy, steady progress to enter the ground. The real queue was for that roundabout in the town centre, on the way out West as I would drive over to the Dales for the weekend.

I think this is why you're finding it OK to be fair…

Getting off the A1 earlier at Wetherby and going northwest up the A661 to Harrogate is significantly less congested than going along the A59 as per the suggestions of the signage on the A1 (and major road network more generally).

You can also:

• Take the M1 or M62 to Leeds,
• Pick up the M621 to Junction 3,
• take the "Loop Road" round to the roundabout meeting with the A58 and take Park Lane/Burley Street, out of the city center,
• Follow Burley Street all the way until it turns into Spen Lane
• Follow Spen lane up the hill past the Catholic Church on the left and keep going until you meet with the A6120 next to a
• Turn right, and follow to the roundabout,
• take the first exit onto the A660 (Otley Road)
• Turn left, and follow the A660 all the way out the city past Golden Acre Park to Bramhope then immediately turn off right as you enter the village
• follow the road until it takes you down an increasingly narrow track called Creskeld Lane,
• Descend the steep hill and take a left at the bottom,
• Follow the road (Arthurington Lane) to pick up the A658 at Pool-in-Wharfdale,
• follow the A658 almost all the way to Follifoot (specifically, you should ignore signs trying to take you up the A61 to "Harrogate",
• Just before Follifoot, turn off left onto Rudding Lane, which will take you straight up to the A661 just to the left of the entrance to the Great Yorkshire Showground.

I forget who taught me that, but it's surprisingly effective even at busy times, due to cutting out a lot of distance (mostly on roads liable to congestion up near harrogate), and using reliable rat-runs to pass through a city center as a shortcut in a way which (on the face of it) seems like madness.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

If we want the show to be somewhere near the centre of mainland UK it will be held in Clitheroe Lancashire. I've tried in vain to find the point equidistant from the population, it would clearly be further south as not many people live in the far north of Scotland.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 17/11/2022 11:35:43:

Louis Rex and his team ran the original Harrogate Show.

After reading Circlips comments in a different thread, I enquired about this with Louis (around 16th Oct.2022). He told me that he and his team are not organizing any show at the original Harrogate Show Ground, and that at present there is no possibility of their organizng a show elsewehere.

So, if there is a show at Harrogate, it is something else, organised by someone else.

Ketan.

Thank you Ketan, that is a lot more definitive if a little disappointing

Brian

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

IF Harrowgate is being organised – BY WHOM ? Does anybody know for a fact it is going to happen and when ? In an effort to plan both work and other commitments a date would be helpful ! Noel.

[BC ProfParticipant @bcprof]

The last time I looked on Google the only reference I could find was for a model railway exhibition .

Brian

[shaun meakin 1Participant @shaunmeakin1]

The National Model Engineering Exhibition 2023 and Harrogate Model Rail two fantastic events with just one admission ticket apparently. March 10th 10am-7pm and 11th 10am-5pm. We (CuP) have expressed an interest but at this time we have no further information re costs etc. It is 2 days only.

[Author]

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