Hammerite has changed

[DMRParticipant @dmr]

I am on the task of repainting my front wrought iron gates with a brush which I know is not very on-topic but….

I use Hammerite paint fairly often, as I am sure many engineers do and have a stock, so I don't often have to go shopping and I always use a brush to apply it, for which I need no comments about the advantages of spraying it on. Note that all mention of spraying it on using thinners has gone off the label. Indeed it specifically says "do not thin"!

To cut to the point, it's different and I cannot find any comments about it on the web which suprises me. I finished off my stock first, which may well be quite old but it went on OK. The new tin seemed like the old at first except that it was thinner which I put down to it being fresh. Now I was applying this slowly onto scrolly shapes (don't ask) and noticed that the new paint in the can was starting to skin away from the centre where I was tending to pick paint up from on the brush. Also the new black was not nearly as black as came out of the old tin – a greyish black. Anyway I finished the first gate and it looks OK but I am left wondering if it will last before I toil over the other one.

Can anyone in the know clue me up. The company owning the name is now AkzoNobel and the labelling on the tin has changed. If left a week there is a very heavy skin in the tin – something I have never encountered before with any cellulose. The second coat advice has changed from within 8 hours to recoatable in 4 hours with no limit for a second coat. Without putting lesser differences down, does anyone have any meaningful input as to if it is as good as old Hammerite?

Dennis

[DMRParticipant @dmr]

Seeking someone who knows

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

A couple of suggestions after seeing paint made on "how its made"

Mix it well before using

You may have a tinful from a bad batch, buy your next tin from elsewhere

[donkeyParticipant @donkey]

No comment on new recipe. But to prevent the skin forming the can should be stored upside down. Also I don't believe the recipe is cellulose based. I await to be proven wrong.

Brian

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

No it has changed, like the *NEW* Jeyes fluid it is now politically correct and like most things political – useless

The old Hammerite wasn't cellulose based as many think as putting celly thinners in just gave you a big blob of snot.

The correct thinners for Hammerite was trike which as we all know has been banned but Hammerite thinners was a good source of trike after the ban.

I can only guess that the H&S Nazi's finally caught up with them.

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Strange, isn't it, how advertising bull…. like "New Formula". "Green", and "Improved" usually means "more expensive and doesn't work nearly as well." And that's my Victor Meldrew moment over for today…..

[David Taylor 18Participant @davidtaylor18]

No category of paint of whatever brand in the European Community is quite what it was prior to 2007. Every manufacturer has to contend with the European Decopaint Directive 2004/42/EC which limits the total volume of Volatile Organic Compounds ('VOCs&#39 in paints, varnishes and vehicle refinishing products in order to reduce VOC emissions and to reduce the generation of ozone in the lower atmosphere.

Any paint, varnish or vehicle re-finishing product must not exceed the maximum VOC level for that particular class of product and must carry a label stating the grammes/Litre of VOCs for that product in its ready to use condition. For decorative paints and varnishes ANNEX 2A sets out two limits of values, the first of which applied from 1 Jan 2007 – the second, and stricter limits, applied from 1 Jan 2010. For vehicle re-finishing products, Annex 2B sets out the limits applicable since 2007.

Manufacturers of paints have received torrents of complaints about household decorative paints, in particular white paint (80% of household paint used), turning yellow. They try to turn the VOC limits into a marketing advantage by referring to their products as 'low odour'. Many varnishes and gloss paints these days are water based and boast 'Low VOCs' but as anyone who has used water based varnishes will attest, the finish they produce is dreadful as compared to oil based ones. Neither does it adhere well – you can scratch it off with a fingernail.

I don't know the present situation with Hammerite and VOCs but I'd suspect that any change in formula is to comply with the Decopaint Directive. Hammerite used to be Finnigans, which was owned by Hunting Petroleum Services Ltd, but yes, it's now Akzo-Nobel. I have a tin in front of me – no idea how old, but the label says 'High VOCs – VOC content 25 – 50%. I don't think that label complies with the current directive which requires the label to state what the Directive Limit is for that class of paint, and what the actual is in g/L. I won't mention the (well known) brand of water based varnish I have which is destined to be binned, but it's rubbish and states 'low VOC 0.3%'. I also have Sadolin Extra Durable Woodstain, which is excellent and states: 'EU limit for this product is 400g/L 2010. This product contains 399 g/L, so it seems clear to me that in the interests of producing an excellent product, the makers have taken the VOVs to the limit.

Sorry it's so long-winded, but I hope it's of interest and relevance. Whatever paint you're using, if you're not happy with the finish the VOC limit might be the culprit. Personally, any paint that states 'low VOCs' stays on the shop shelf.

Same situation with rubbish water based 'decorative' (rather then 'preservative&#39 finishes for sheds and fences these days. Makers still try but fail to convince us that they're as effective as creosote, (banned for domestic use by the EU some years ago).

[Mike TeamanParticipant @miketeaman64279]

Hammerite thinners was great. You could get just about anything clean with it! You are correct. It is definitely different. Industrial thinners used to be pretty good too but I haven't seen that around for years now. Come to think of it, I haven't seen any of the guys who used to use it on a daily basis either!

Mike

[Rick Kirkland 1Participant @rickkirkland1]

Hammerite was Amyl Acetate which if breathed in could really make you float. . . . like. . . . .man. . . you know. . . It's true that as with many paints the H &S Gestapo have dictated that we may no longer be put at risk by the effects of their constituents. . . .like . . . . . man. . . ..

Rick

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

You should try Nitromors 'New Formula' paint stripper next, the paint stripper that doesn't strip paint !

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Although I could find no MSDS on Hammerite's own website … this one is provided by Dulux.

MichaelG.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Can't say I'm surprised. I expected the safety Nazis to have caught up with them years ago for using trike as thinners. What always seemed odd to me was that apparently there was no trike in the paint itself so the thinners was a different material to the carrier varnish.

Unsurprised by poor adhesion with the new version. If it still has the silicone content which made it easy clean slippery adhesion is hard to arrange. Old version was a two part process with the slippy silicone bit migrating to be on top of the stick to metal component. Which was why primers were verboten. Or at least that was what I was told by "one who ought to have known".

Never cared for it as a brush on paint. I know a good job can be done but all too often Hammerite high build was exploited as a superfically attractive cover over a bodge job. What I loved it for was as an easy clean, tough and attractive finish for things like alloy wheels, motorcycle control pedals et al when sprayed on in multiple thin coats. Used to do wheels with a super cheap Badger airbrush, lots of thinners so it would spray and dry off between coats. Just kept going over and over until the airbrush jar ran out. Large bottle, which isn't very big, would do a pair of wheels. About the only job that Badger could do any sense. But hey the set only cost £5 plus £3 for the large jar kit and a bit of work to make a compressor fitting so one job wonder status was acceptable. especially amortised over 45 (ish) years.

Clive

[Marcus BowmanParticipant @marcusbowman28936]

I have used the new Hammerite, and its the last time I will buy it. The new version is a completely different formulation, like almost all paints currently produced, and its composition has been changed to conform to current regulations. A paint supplier will confirm this.

The old Hammerite was based on glass flakes and was marvellous stuff (1970s) but subsequently changed in, perhaps, the 1990s to its detriment. Still worked to some extent (but I can tell you the weather resistance was much reduced). Changed again, totally, a couple of years ago.

I have now used up my old stock, and have had enough of the new stuff. It's a huge disappointment.

Marcus

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

I have been trying to buy Hammerite Thinners recently, tried Halfords locally and in another town 40 miles away, out of stock, nobody knew when any was coming in, same with B&Q and Homebase. Eventually found two tins in a backstreet Ironmongers shop. Yes Hammerite has changed, I have just painted the side gate with the new smooth Black, except its not black but a greyish black without any thickness to it. Any suggestions to what we all use instead?

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I also had some hammerite paint and used it on several out door projects and still had some left in the tin and as suggested stored it upside down. My garage door faces west and it gets very hot in the summer and as you may have guessed the tin popped open on the shelf and sent itself across the saw bench! I have removed the result off the saw bench because I coated it with a PTFE coating so that wood did not stick. but the floor, I cannot remove it as its like one of those road humps dried hard. Thanks for the warning about its quality and I will avoid it like the plague. The garage door is now a light green and the inside temp. is some 10C lower than it used to be.

Clive

[DMRParticipant @dmr]

Hi Folks,

All very well and I could guess the Elfin Safety had a hand in it, but………

1) There is nothing on the tin to say "new formula" or any indication that it has changed materially from what was. But old Hammerite claimed up to a 5 year life outside and this modern stuff claims up to 8 years. Baz has clearly got the same result I have with smooth black and I need the same answer he asks for.

2) Car boot sales often produce a tin of old style thinners, part used, but I currently have 3 full litre tins of it horded. Sounds like I shall not be able to mix any AzkoNobel tin with any older stuff to get a different colour, as I often have in the past.

3) I fished my empty old tin out of the bin and despite many dables into it over years there is no sign of skin on the sides. The gates were last painted white (years ago) and I still have some of that white. If I shake the tin, it is loose liquid inside – no skin. If you did as it used to say on the tin, which was to replace the lid and turn upside down to effect a paint seal on the lid, there was no need to store it upside down.

4) old tins of various ages and the latest stufff advise light stirring only. This paint type doesn't settle as such. The advised useable temperature range has never changed.

4) Sorry about the cellulose word – it just came out There are others besides straight triclorethylene. There used to be Trimethylbenzene (I think) but it smelled awful and I can't imagine anybody gettting high on that.

Seriously folks. Is there something akin to old Hammerite that works better outside? What's happened to Trimite paint, although I suppose that is in the same boat?

Dennis

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Can't comment on the outside bit as never tried it but recently had a couple of 2L tins mixed up the match the new lathe and mill.

This is hight temp oil based paint sold as engine enamel by Narrowboat Paints [ no connection ]

They will mix to any RAL number so your aren't limited to just a few shades.

Goes on well, covers well and I can get a decent finish so someone more experienced than me should be able to get a brilliant finish, so far been very pleased with it

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Oh pooh.

I've got a can of smooth hammerite signal yellow to repaint my mini lathe, vintage 2014, unopened… offers?

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/07/2014 18:41:34:

Although I could find no MSDS on Hammerite's own website … this one is provided by Dulux.

.

… and for comparison; you can find the MSDS for the early [Hunting] formulations here.

MichaelG.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 16/07/2014 21:23:16:

Oh pooh.

I've got a can of smooth hammerite signal yellow to repaint my mini lathe, vintage 2014, unopened… offers?

Neil

.

Relabel the tins Sooper Adapt Canary Yellow………………………..?

[websnailParticipant @websnail]

Just painted my gates in a grayish black and with poor coverage. Had to have 3 coats. I thought it was me until I read this post!

I well remember the proper stuff, to do two coats, you had to make sure you had the time to paint the second coat within 4 hours (I think it was 4) or wait 6 weeks or so for it to cure and then do the second coat.

[modeng2000Participant @modeng2000]

So what should we use instead of Hammerite paint?

It was very good at what it was intended for.

John

[charles johnsParticipant @charlesjohns32246]

Try Rustoleum Brand Paint.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

POR15 **LINK**

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 16/07/2014 21:23:16:

Oh pooh.

I've got a can of smooth hammerite signal yellow to repaint my mini lathe, vintage 2014, unopened…

.

You should keep that, Neil

… it would be a good colour for the Cranes on your train-set

MichaelG.

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