First lathe

[Chris ParsonsParticipant @chrisparsons64193]

I am eagerly waiting for Santa to deliver my first lathe (hopefully on Thursday) and have some 'getting started' questions?

The lathe is a Sieg SC4 and I have read about taking it to pieces to clean out the casting sand, protective transport grease etc with paraffin and relubricating it, but am wondering what with??

I have some 'Copaslip' but presumably it would be a good idea to also buy some slideway oil? Do I use the this same oil in the oil ports, and to replace the protective grease removed after cleaning? Is car engine oil or 3-in-1 not suitable?

I am hoping I can use one oil rather than a variety which I am bound to mix up eventually, has anyone got any suggestions as to a good brand etc?

Where would I use the Copaslip? I have read somewhere about using this on the cross and compound slide dovetails?

I guess I am looking for a guide to start 'fettling' perhaps

All suggestions gratefully received

 

Thanks

Chris

 

Edited By Chris Parsons on 17/12/2012 13:34:02

Edited By Chris Parsons on 17/12/2012 13:34:22

Edited By Chris Parsons on 17/12/2012 13:34:58

[Chris ParsonsParticipant @chrisparsons64193]

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

Chris

I would not use copaslip. It gets everywhere and covers you and your tools and your cat in copper-coloured grease, and it's a sod to get it off!

I'd go for a straight mineral oil – Esso Nuto is what Myford suggests – and lubricate everything with that. Get the protective grease off with paraffin and immediately clean that off and put oil on!

I use Castrol GTX on my slideways – because I have a can of the stuff. It's as good as anything. I use Esso Nuto in the spindle bearings, but your Sieg probably has sealed-for-life ballraces, so you shouldn't need to worry about those.

[_Paul_Participant @_paul_]

I use ISO32 (Hydraulic Oil) for the bearings and T68 for the slideways, dont ask me where to get the slideway oil from as I buy mine locally from the "Baltic Oil Works"

_Paul_

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

A good checkover / strip / cleanup as you describe is a good first step. Also check all electrical connections for tightness and make sure the grounding / earthing wires are connected properly and securely before plugging in anything.

I would recommend using copperslip compound only on screw threads and hubs that are disassembled only occasionally. Certainly I would not use it on lathe slideways.

For over 25 years I have used light hydraulic jack oil for all slideway surfaces and the leadscrews on my 1949 South Bend lathe. This oil was recommended by a Shell lubrication engineer when I called and asked for the modern spec of the oil called out on the lathe's lube ID plates, when I first bought the lathe (well used). This oil has almost no odour and does not seem to oxidise at all, and gives a silky smooth action to the running surfaces. On my lathe's gears, which are cast iron, I use a 90 weight gear oil with EP additives from my local auto parts store, who also carry the hydraulic jack oil.

This same lube engineer told me that motor oils like 10W-30 and common 3-in-1 oils are not suitable for use on slideways screws and gears of lathes and mills and other machine tools. He said their detergents can cause dirt and moisture to be trapped in the oil against the metals instead of being pushed out, and he said these oils would not deal with the high pressures in the slideways and screws.

If the lathe's gearing is plastic, it should be run dry. If you feel you must use a lube on the gears use a grease intended for plastics, you can get these at hobby shops that sell RC cars and planes.

Hope info is of some use. Your mileage may vary.

JD

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Is car engine oil or 3-in-1 not suitable?

—

Been using cheapo 15/40 for the last few years, no problems so far

Never use grease on a lathe or you will end up needing a massive strip down and cleanup

To start with make sure everywhere that needs oil, gets oil

This is far more important than the grade

In 6 months to a year you can go for the expensive stuff, or not

By then you will have a good idea about what you are doing

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

I've always used any oil that comes to hand, as long as it doesn't gum or evaporate. It's not caused any problems, but the case for using a 'proper' oil as explained by some of the people posting above seems pretty convincing. I think I might change my ways ( ways – Geddit ? )

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

It is exciteting to get a nice brand new machine, make up a mix of It is a messy job but worthwhile. Parafine or white spirits and oil, some good rag wool and clean the machine of the original grease, when finished give everything a light wipe of oil.
Now for fettling, grip hold of the slides, if you feel any movement adjust the jib strips, there should be 2 grub screws and locking nuts, Make sure they are not to tight, Please enjoy for many years

Bob.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Chris Parsons on 17/12/2012 13:33:37:

I am eagerly waiting for Santa to deliver my first lathe (hopefully on Thursday) and have some 'getting started' questions?

……………………..

I have some 'Copaslip' but presumably it would be a good idea to also buy some slideway oil? Do I use the this same oil in the oil ports, and to replace the protective grease removed after cleaning? Is car engine oil or 3-in-1 not suitable?

Thanks

Chris

Hi Chris,

Congrats on getting your first lathe. Don't worry too much about the legendary casting sand, I have had none in any of my Chinese Machines – 4 so far – even my ultra cheapo Seig C0 was good and clear of grit. After inspection I just cleaned off the anti rust grease (usually lanolin wax or similar) with white spirit and then alcohol to get it spotless and lubricate with a suitable lubricant such as has been suggested. I have found no problem with the factory adjustments of gib keys etc.

The reason motor oil is frowned upon is that it contains detergents, which in a vehicle helps to keep the sludge etc in suspension until it can be filtered out, as well as other additives. In a lathe there is no filter and the lack of detergent allows the sludge and damaging particles to fall to the bottom of the gearbox where they are relatively harmless. A few years of occasional use probably will cause no problem but for the low cost of suitable oil ask yourself – 'is it worth the risk'? You won't know until your bearings wear out and then blame the manufacturer. 3-in-1 is, in my opinion too low a viscosity to be of much use in a machine (except sewing machines etc with relatively light loading), but I stand to be corrected.

Copaslip is really just an anti sieze grease with a high melting point so that it can be used where parts are to be disassembled infrequently or in high temperature situations such as the sliding surfaces of brake pads and shoes (only a smear) where little actual movement takes place. It is anti corrosive so can be used on screw threads to prevent siezing, it has little use for greasing where movement takes place. To quote the manufacturer – "Copaslip is an anti-sieze pre-assembly compound for use in any temperature from sub-zero to 1100ºC " see here for the data sheet

Personally, I use high pressure dry lubricants for my slideways – including cross slide etc and in some other areas of my machines, they don't attract particles that the heavier oils and trad. greases do, and if it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for me – and it's my problem if they fail to do the job, but so far no problem. They are not cheap but neither was my lathe. I use recommended machine oils (or 'equivalent' as they say) for some oiling points.

I use camellia oil for rust proofing when leaving the machines for any length of time just a wipe over is enough. The Japanese have used it for protecting tools and swords for centuries and it works.

Best regards and enjoy your aquisition,

Terry

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Chris,
Don't be too liberal with paraffin near any labels on your new lathe (As I was on my X3 mill.) as is dissolves the adhesive. This is the effect it had on the label on the front of my mill.

Les.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Why clean off the original protection (apart from slides obviously)? Does it do something bad?

Wondering about that camelia oil. Being vegetable based won't it go off?

My favourite for painted surfaces and equivalent including sheet work in progress is candle wax helped on with a heat gun, clear waxoil on some things that are stored where the pong doesn't matter. Also had some genuine beeswax polish that is good but not normal floor polish which contains silicone.

Wouldn't recomend EP90 as it always seems to stink. A hint of grease should be enough for the change gears else dust mixes in to a grinding paste. BTW look see where the back end of your spindle ends. If it is inside the rear cover it will dump swarf onto the gears so find a Christmas wine cork that will fit. (if you have a Hardinge read champagne cork).

If you ever want a 'clean' thin grease use Vaseline aka 'petroleum jelly'. It is actually the recommended lubricant for some high speed spindles.

[AB658Participant @ab658]

Purpose-made slideway oils are, like most other oils, sold by the majors in minimum 20L packs. An alternative use for these formulations, because the performance requirements are similar, is often chainsaw oil….which is available in 5L or even 1L packs from Machine Mart, Screwfix, agricultural suppliers, etc.

Note 1: this is chain bar oil, not engine oil.

Note 2: avoid bio-degradeable versions & stick to traditional mineral oil variants.

Note 3: these comments apply only to new, branded products from reputable suppliers. It does not apply to stuff brewed up in a shed by your brother-in-law, last night's chip oil, used engine oil or any other contaminated options.

Usually sold in ISO 68 viscosity, fine for horizontal slides; if you can find ISO 220, that would be preferred, but not essential, for vertical slides.

A few minutes work on the web will confirm the opening statements.

Adrian

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

Chronos do slideway lubricant in 1 and 5 litre litre containers . .seems to work fine for me . .

Beware using the old bottle of EP gear oil you may have kicking around for anything apart from car diffs – it does attack phosphor bronze such as half nuts or anything else made of said material !

w.

Edited By WALLACE on 17/12/2012 19:45:24

Edited By WALLACE on 17/12/2012 19:47:50

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

For my X2 mill and CL300 lathe I use generous amounts of neat cutting oil, applied with a brush and most of it ends up on slideways/me/ etc. I also slop it on slides and leadscrew from time to time.

I use 3 in 1 for the oil cups on my Hoover fractional motor.

Neil

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Bazyle on 17/12/2012 18:53:34:

Why clean off the original protection (apart from slides obviously)? Does it do something bad?

Wondering about that camelia oil. Being vegetable based won't it go off?….

It has been used successfully for centuries by some of the best metalworkers and woodworkers in history, so I'm quite happy to use it as I have for over 5 years with no problem.

But who am I to say.

T

Edited By Terryd on 17/12/2012 22:00:38

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Bazyle on 17/12/2012 18:53:34:

Why clean off the original protection (apart from slides obviously)? Does it do something bad?

…………..

Because it is intended solely for anti corrosion purposes, not lubrication and will attract and retain a lovely abrasive mix of swarf, grit and other unsavoury particles, Yummy

T

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Sorry to bring this up but do remember saftey specs please…

Also try your new "toy" out on "known" metal..don't disillusion your self because of some found chunk doesn't play nice. simularly tooling..center height and sharp (or at least as requred for material)

Have fun

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Posted by Terryd on 17/12/2012 22:04:47:

Posted by Bazyle on 17/12/2012 18:53:34:

Why clean off the original protection (apart from slides obviously)? Does it do something bad?

…………..

Because it is intended solely for anti corrosion purposes, not lubrication and will attract and retain a lovely abrasive mix of swarf, grit and other unsavoury particles, Yummy

T

Yep, it'll end up looking like that boiled sweet you put in your pocket when you were a kid and found a week later

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

KISS…put some oil on it (not vegetable oil!!) and it will be fine!!

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Er… Wallace, I’m not sure that can be true. Triumph gearboxes are filled with EP90 gear oil and they feature steel backed bronze thrust washers on the layshaft cluster.

[Chris ParsonsParticipant @chrisparsons64193]

Thank you everyone for the advice – I have now bought a litre of oil from Arc Euro Trade (HLP 32 Hydraulic Oil) which is what they seem to recommend for 'small' Sieg lathes (not sure whether mine is small or not?)

Useful advice though, I'll desist using grease (including Copaslip) and make sure I know where all the oil ports are so I don't miss any out

Good news about possibly not having to do a strip down but I will lift the covers and do an inspection just in case.

I do have a box of 'scavenged' metal but may buy some known stuff to get me started and practise on (live in Exeter, anyone know of a good local(ish) supplier?)

Got the message about the safety aspects too – I have a vertical bench drill and always wear special safety specs, even when cutting wood with power tools but worth mentioning, thanks (they magnify and replace my reading glasses so I can't forget them – as I can't see what I doing <g&gt

Hope you all have a great Christmas

Chris

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi Chris

First lathe eh? – exciting times!

I too live near Exeter but, so far, I've not discovered a local source of metals. I suggest you contact these folk and order some EN1A (Steel) from them. I've found them very helpful, reasonably priced and quick to respond.

If you do come across supplies near Exeter please let us know!

We all know where you'll be over Christmas!

Regards

Norman

[HomeUseParticipant @homeuse]

I dont know I am correct, but was informed by a lifelong engineer that the best oil for smaller lathes like the myford, is Castrol "R". He was a two wheeled high performance engine fanatic like myself.

I took his advice and have been using "R" for the last few years on my myford with great sucess and no known disadvantages. The only thing missing is the "Race" smell when it burns – maybe could make a burner to give the right atmospere.

Has any one else used "R", or do they know of any reasons why it should not be used

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I bought a brand new ML7 in 1969 and it was installed at the truck garage where I worked.

It spent it's whole life running on Castrol Rotella diesel engine oil for the simple reason it was at the side of a 900 gallon tank of the stuff.

After the 2nd or 3th set of glass oilers cracked thru pushing this little machine too hard I swapped over to a Tecalamitic pressure feed oiler off one of the scrap trucks and it served it's life out set up like this.

Later on when back at home and I needed the room for a larger lathe it was sold to Tony Jeffree and has served as the basis for quite a few of his articles.

Tony removed the pressure feed system and reverted to the 'original' Myford oilers. Later on he removed them and fitted the pressure oiling system from Arceutotrade which again formed the basis of another article.

I could never work out why he removed a perfectly good Tecalimit system to replace it with 19th century technology and then to replace that with what was already on ?

Perhaps I was 20 years ahead of the trend

I probably owned that machine 20 years and it did some serious work but when I sold it to Tony it was still on the original soft spindle, white metal bearings and had had no shims removed in that time.

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Castrol R gums things up really badly if they aren't actually moving, it leaves a really nasty varnish like deposit which is murder to clean up. I used to curse the stuff at times, cleaning it out from carburettors on 2 strokes that had been standing for a while.
Does smell….evocative though

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