Doncaster Model Railway Show.

[alan ord 2Participant @alanord2]

Went along to the model railway show at Doncaster Racecourse today. Long que to get in, even with advance ticket. Mostly N, OO and 0 gauge and not really my cup of tea but my friend is into 00 gauge and as we live in Doncaster I went along with him. I was surprised how busy it was. By lunch time it was packed. Almost no signs of Covid restrictions. Only a few people wearing masks and most not, that was it. At least it got me out of the house for a few hours. Made me question why the Model Engineering Exhibition has been cancelled for this year?

Alan.

[alan ord 2Participant @alanord2]

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The answer to your question may well revolve around money ! Noel.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

I'd go with that comment. A lot of the shows live hand to mouth from one show to another. Lay out the money and have the show cancelled or poorly attended because of a new wave of covid and restrictions and you could well destroy the chances of being able to run ever again. It's a case of do you take the risk or not or so it seems to me.

regards Martin

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Starting a Show may well involve making a loss for several years.

I know of one organiser who did not break even for at least three years and only made a very modest profit on the final year, and this was with heavy volunteer involvement (Family problems then caused abandonment, Sad; It was a good show )

Restarting a Show after a break of two years might well cause a lot of heart searching.

But we all ,hope that Doncaster Show, and Alexandra Palace will come back for us.

Howard

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Doncaster may come back* but Alexandra Palace and probably many other London venues – let alone day-to-day work such as builders, shop deliveries, etc. – may be hit hard for any future events of any sort.

It lies well within the Congestion Charge Area, also attracting extras like the Ultra Low Emission "Zone" fee for any vehicle up to 3T GVW; and for HGVs over 12T Gross Vehicle Weight, a money-spinner called the 'Direct Vision Standard" – (invented by TFLy?) based on the field of view the vehicle cab nominally gives the HGV driver – who as we all know, is blessed with a somewhat similar arrangement of eyes to that of the spider.

Not so bad may be for a club coming by hired bus, a coach company running a trip to the venue, or a group of friends sharing one of their party's car; but I would not be surprised if many will simply be deterred completely.

For the exhibitors and traders though it is yet more cost, and we have already seen fewer of the main traders over the last several years, even pre-plague.

It is not ever so easy to pay either. Transport for London's preferred option is a direct-debit scheme obviously aimed at residents and regular visitors like traders. Its only alternative, given grudgingly rather than by clear statement on its own web-site, is advance booking on-line. No other options. Perhaps It doesn't want we types from outside the North & South Circular Roads, visiting the nation's capital.

TFL's web-site has joined the Down-With-All-Compression-Ignition-Engines lobby. I wonder if The Mayor of London has ever spotted all those bottles of 'Ad-Blue' in filling stations and knows its purpose?

.

*(We can but hope for both although I vowed not to visit Doncaster again, because the Racecourse is just so difficult to find – one sign-post on the motorway exit, and that's it. The poor "lady in the box" could not keep up, and when "she" and I did succeed, I was lucky to spot the last space in the car-park. I enjoyed the show itself, but I thought even a Londoner would regard its cafeteria prices as daylight robbery.

As for driving to 'Ally Pally' or any other London-area venue, I would not consider it, even without the local taxes. All my previous visits were by coach or with a friend capable of both driving and navigating, from the M3 to Muswell Hill.)

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

"although I vowed not to visit Doncaster again, because the Racecourse is just so difficult to find"

Doncaster Racecourse difficult to find? Really? I am quite surprised by that statement because it must cover about 2 square miles and dominates the southern end of the town (or city I think it is now) with the main entrance at the intersection of two major roads, the A18 and A638.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Nigel has it ! Doncaster may return, but Ally Pally is gone ! The costs for every one have gone beyond what can be afforded ! Our best hope is The Midland Show, which I hope will be well supported – this will then seccure future shows there. Noel.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

With many of the shows in the Midlands I will not be attending. I feel that the money spent on getting there could be better spent towards equipment. There does not seem to be the savings that use to exist many years ago. I am sure there are still some.

I do appreciate that they are nice to visit and you get the chance to meet many like minded people.

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

Ally Pally is not within the Congestion Charge Zone, but is within the ULEZ. The latter is £12.50 for non-compliant cars, and easily paid as a one-off by credit card. I did it yesterday evening. Most cars after 2005 are of course compliant, so no extra charge.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Yes, Chris, really!

The Racecourse might cover 2 square miles, but within a huge urban area.

Leaving the M18 at the appropriate junction, its brown-and-white sign to the racecourse was the last I saw.

Naturally I'd expected the course to be on or beyond the fringes of the town. Not as you say, on a major junction which proved of at least two very busy main roads, and difficult to navigate.

As the road junctions closed in, the sat-nav could no longer keep track. I was my own, forced by very heavy traffic at its speed through a maze I'd never previously visited; a situation in which you have to concentrate on the driving not navigating.

One directed turn was into a trading-estate; the next, to a queue for the rail goods terminal.

When eventually, I saw the Racecourse building and car-park, separated by an urban dual-carriageway, I had practically passed the car-park entrance. I managed to find roundabouts for about-turns; and luckily although the sign said "Full" and suggested an imaginary "overflow" car-park, I could just spot a space.

I had been about to give up, follow this unknown main road until beyond the city, then find my way more easily to my weekend's second destination, in the Dales.

Never again. It's not worth the frustration, physical risk, limited parking; and the stress.

I used to enjoy Harrogate – it was easy to find, had good facilities, in a lovely setting; what a shame its owners priced it out of use. It is now named the "Yorkshire Event Centre", too, and its web-site shows very few public and trade-only events over the next few months.

Fingers crossed for Warwickshire – easy to reach from anywhere (Dorset, in my case), easy parking, and good food at reasonable cost, although a very cramped cafeteria!

.

As for Doncaster Racecourse cafe prices: I had taken a packed lunch, but opted for a snack before leaving. Obviously I was naive to expect change from a 2019-value £10, for a paper cup of tea-bag-in-water and a mass-produced, µwaved, pasty, in a horsey set's venue!

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

I used to enjoy Harrogate – it was easy to find, had good facilities, in a lovely setting; what a shame its owners priced it out of use. It is now named the "Yorkshire Event Centre", too, and its web-site shows very few public and trade-only events over the next few months.

Strange how different people find (in all meanings) different venus.

Doncaster & Harrogate are about the same distance for me, but I won't go to a show at Harrogate again due to the near impossibilty of getting in or out. The local roads cannot cope and the wider area grinds to a halt – particularly when the Yorkshire Show is on. Last show I attended there was a shooting show and, despite an early start from home that saw me leave the A1 around 7.30am, it took 2 hours to que from the A1 junction to the showground. Coming out I used local knowledge to get on to minor roads to come back a different route.

Doncaster, in comparison, is a doddle to get to & not usually any hold-ups coming from the Wakefield side. I do have the advantage of local knowledge here, though, as one of my brothers lived in Cantley (on the road out towards Bawtry from the racecourse) for a number of years.

Not been to a Midlands ME show since they moved out of Donnington Park – gone beyond comforatable day trip distance for me at the new venue. Probably the only shows I bother with now are at the NEC (non-ME related) – no parking issues, easy access & the last pre-Chinapox shows had edible fodder at not-too-eyewatering prices – such venues are never going to be cheap. When the ME show was at Harrogate the refreshment prices were no better than Doncaster IIRC.

Nigel B.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Alley Pally is not the only London venue. The London Model show moved there from the Lee Valley Leisure centre so historically it's not wedded to alley Palley.

I guess everything will go through a period of adjustment including venue's trying to attract custom by adjusting hire prices.

regards Martin

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Ah – there's the nub of it, Nigel B. Local knowledge!

None of the main show venues are anywhere near me, though Midlands is just about a day-trip away, with a fairly direct route via Bath and the Fosse Way (about 4-5 hours). After all, I attend the NAME meetings for my club and that is even further from Weymouth, but the pub it uses is reasonably easy to reach.

I last attended the Harrogate show before I retired. I used to take the Friday off, leave home about 6am and arrive around mid-day. The distance is about 300 miles – after the show I would then drive over to the Dales for the rest of my weekend at one of my two caving-clubs. (Now retired, when I visit there I stay overnight on the Sunday and drive home on Monday, just over 300 miles by the best route.)

I rarely found any over-long queue for the Great Yorkshire Showground, approaching from the East. The biggest congestion was afterwards, turning West and queuing among the commuting traffic at the big roundabout on the fringe of the city. Past that was generally easy going all the way to Settle.

Yes, future model-engineering shows at 'Ally Pally' are in doubt. I said it is within the Congestion Area because TFL's web-site explains that is now the entire area with the Circular Roads, and Muswell Hill is well within that.

To be honest though, I do wonder if the future of most big public exhibitions, for any pursuit, looks grim.

'

One exhibition I did enjoy, and only about 50 miles from home, was Taunton MES'. Though a club rather than national-level show it had a good range from host and half a dozen guest clubs, room outside for the traction-engines in steam, and a few traders. Even Reeves was there one year, with a small stand. It's also where I ordered, and collected the next year, the 'Western Steam' boiler for my steam-wagon.

[A SmithParticipant @asmith78105]

Harrogate ME Show 2023, March 10th & 11th. I see that there is a Yorkshire Event Centre web page announcing this show. There's also a brief mention of it in the latest ME. Anyone know more?

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Nigel Graham 2, I don't know why your sat-nav couldn't keep track, as I've never found that problem with my Garmin one, which zooms in on main road and multi junctions and on dual carriageways and motorways, will show a picture on the right hand side, with the lane/s marked with arrows, of the one/s you need to be in at junctions. i've never had any problems at Doncaster.

Regards Nick.

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

Posted by john halfpenny on 14/02/2022 10:02:13:

Ally Pally is not within the Congestion Charge Zone, but is within the ULEZ. The latter is £12.50 for non-compliant cars, and easily paid as a one-off by credit card. I did it yesterday evening. Most cars after 2005 are of course compliant, so no extra charge.

I checked my car, registered in 2013, and it's not compliant.

[alan ord 2Participant @alanord2]

Hi A Smith, can you post the link to the Yorkshire Event Page article you have referred to. I have searched the home page for info regarding the Harrogate ME Show without success.

Thanks,

Alan Ord.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

A Smith –

Can you tell us exactly where you found that YEC announcement?

It is not on the official YEC web-site, which I have open as I type.

It lists only two forthcoming shows; a food-trade one in February, and a fantasy-game fair in June.

The YEC web-site does not detail events beyond their titles, a theme image, basic description, dates and ticket prices. It is for the event organisers – not the show-ground – to advertise in detail and appropriately. It does though give plenty of information on finding the venue.

As with most exhibition or arts venues, the YEC does not organise events, except perhaps for occasional markets. It rents space in it to other bodies' events; which seem mainly business talking-shops.

I understand from having telephoned the place, that the YEC delays announcements until the event booking has been confirmed with its own organisers, which is entirely logical and understandable. When I rang, the lady said "ours" was in the calendar but still awaiting confirmation.

This all suggests to me that we need question the exhibition organisers, not the show-ground.

It seems to me that the YEC is very much at the mercy of event organisers, and so far only two have definitely booked the venue for 2023. And one of those is a private, trade-only sweeties fair. (Fruit-Gums, Mum, not show-biz!)

'

Nick –

Mine is a Tom Tom and maybe it is slower to react than your Garmin, but it is almost useless in heavy "fast-stop" traffic, in a very confined urban area. It takes an appreciable time, a second or more, to verify your location and heading, then give the next direction. Meanwhile you need see exactly where the thing is directing you, in time; and it is very ambiguous among very closely-set junctions, complicated roundabouts and fast-changing lights. You cannot stop to work out exactly which of several lanes or turns, and I am too busy concentrating on driving to do that anyway.

You and i might anyway have entered Doncaster from different directions. I was directed randomly from the SE, having left the M1 at a junction that showed the only race-course sign; but I left the city via the race-course road, on the Northerly heading I needed.

I nearly gave up entirely. I saw the venue just when about to follow its road out into the countryside, then plot by a course to my next destination, far away across Yorkshire; putting the failure as not to be risked again.

Awful place. The exhibition was fine, but in a city-centre race-course? I will never return to Doncaster, certainly not by car. It's not worth it.

.

Gary –

Finding it easy to pay is not the point. They'll soon chase you for it! Actually the official web-site I'd read suggested TFL had made it easy only for residents and regular traders. Not casual visitors.

The ULEZ matters to we day visitors from elsewhere, only as £12.50 better spent on model-engineering sundries than the city council, especially if shared between car occupants.

It will be the exhibitors ( who need drive to the venue twice in several days, to set up and collect their models) and even more so the traders, with their large vans and their employees also needing hotels, who will really be hit by heavy clean-air and congestion charges; and similarly for any cultural event needing such support.

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 17/12/2022 22:07:03

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Nigel, I understand now, I had to borrow a Tom Tom when I had to go to a place I'd never been before in my last day job, got totally lost as the turning I needed came up well after I had past it, took me 20 odd miles to get back on track, luckily I did have a regional map with me. I decided never to use one of those again. The best one I ever had was a Navman, but when that gave up the ghost, nobody seemed to be selling them, hence I got a Garmin with life-time map updates and they are really good in my opinion, and I've had it for about six years and did an update just yesterday.

Whenever I've been to Doncaster, it's been off the A1M from the south and leaving at junction 36 onto the A630 and then onto the A18, which takes you straight to the racecourse on Leger Way.

The Garmin gives me advanced verbal warning of the next turnings and which exit to take on roundabouts i.e. 1st 2nd 3rd etc.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 17/12/2022 23:29:20

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I think I only missed one of the Doncaster shows and after a quick Google maps check I just followed the signs to the racecourse. The only problem was on my first visit, I tried to find a space in the car park opposite the racecourse which proved futile and then drove up the road to the overflow car park which had an inexhaustible supply of space and a few minutes walk to the entrance. For my other visits I just made straight for the overflow and parked easily. I hope the Rex team can put on a show in the future as it was a well organised and interesting and enjoyable event.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 18/12/2022 00:06:28

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Doncaster is dead easy to get to by rail, then a convenient bus to the racecourse, but last time there were 3 of us so we got a taxi. With geriatric railcard and book early it's cheap as well. Perhaps the strikes will be over by the time of the exhibition and I can see how easy Harrogate is.

[Clive IndiaParticipant @cliveindia]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 17/12/2022 21:56:17:

A Smith –

Can you tell us exactly where you found that YEC announcement?
Snip…..

Federation Here

Actual event web page (very basic but should get better) Here

Can't be bothered to argue about satnavs.

Edited By Clive India on 18/12/2022 09:26:43

[Clive IndiaParticipant @cliveindia]

Posted by duncan webster on 18/12/2022 01:13:59:

Doncaster is dead easy to get to by rail, then a convenient bus to the racecourse, but last time there were 3 of us so we got a taxi. With geriatric railcard and book early it's cheap as well. Perhaps the strikes will be over by the time of the exhibition and I can see how easy Harrogate is.

Duncan, you missed the two best things about Doncaster racecourse as a venue – it makes a great venue for a racecourse (little else) and it has "The Wetherby Whaler" opposite where southerners can discover real fish and chips..

Edited By Clive India on 18/12/2022 09:27:55

[BallistolParticipant @ballistol]

Posted by Clive India on 18/12/2022 09:25:23:

Posted by duncan webster on 18/12/2022 01:13:59:

Duncan, you missed the two best things about Doncaster racecourse as a venue – it makes a great venue for a racecourse (little else) and it has "The Wetherby Whaler" opposite where southerners can discover real fish and chips..

Edited By Clive India on 18/12/2022 09:27:55

Surely you refer to Whitby’s, fine fish and chips indeed 👍🏻.
https://www.whitbysrestaurant.co.uk

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