Capacities of Eclipse T-handle tap wrenches

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

I recently acquired a secondhand Eclipse 143 tap wrench (the T-handle chuck-type). Before I got it I found, from looking at Spear and Jackson's specs on their Eclipse T-handle wrenches, that the capacity of the current 143 is between 3 and 8mm AF.

 

 

I was a little surprised then to find that the capacity of my secondhand one is actually 6-10mm AF approx. This means the smallest tap I can use out of the selection I own is an M8 tap (a Presto), or even M10 if it's an Aldi or Silverline one. If the capacity had been the same as given on the S&J website it looks like I'd have been able to use much smaller taps (down to M4) and lost a bit of capacity at the higher end, which would have suited me better.

 

 

Can anyone familiar with Eclipse T-handle wrenches, both old and new, confirm:

 

 

a). whether the capacities given on the S&J website for the current wrenches are correct;

b). whether the capacity of older spec Eclipse T-handle wrenches is bigger than their newer counterparts, and therefore that the capacity of my 143 is par for the course, given its age;

c). what I can expect the capacities of the two smaller Eclipse T-handle wrenches (141,142) to be if I buy obviously old (say 20th century at the latest) secondhand examples?

 

 

Many thanks for any help.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 05/09/2018 15:29:53

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Responding to my own query here, and perhaps rendering some of it redundant, I see that there is a step lower down the inside of the chuck, and if you use this you can accommodate taps as small as M3.

 

I'm unsure though whether this is in fact intended as a secure fixing point for smaller taps, and still confused about the stated sizings on the S&J website.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 05/09/2018 15:52:46

[VicParticipant @vic]

The Larger of my Eclipse tap wrenches takes from M6 to M12. Using the “step” inside as you put it, it will take M5 and M4 taps. I have three sizes of Eclipse tap wrenches and the whole series goes down to at least M2.5. It may go lower but I don’t have any taps smaller than that.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The sizing of Eclipse tap wrenches is somewhat mystifying.

I have a collection of tap wrenches that cover the sizes I need, but I cannot see how the Eclipse ones can cover a full range within the numbers they have, given their limited capacity.

Neil

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Bill

All the Eclipse tap wrenches have a "2-stage" interior as you describe and it is fine to grip the smaller taps in the deeper one.

My Eclipse No 143 takes from 5mm in the lower part to 7 mm in the tip. Equates in practical terms from M6/¼" to M12/½". For anything bigger I am looking for a wrench with more torque than the short handles on the Eclipse.

My Eclipse No 142 is my "BA" wrench, takes from 2.5mm to 5 mm , equating to 10 BA/M3/ 1/8"Imperial up to 0BA/M6/¼"Imperial.

Also have an Eclipse No 43 which is between the 142 and 143 in sizes, takes from 4.5mm to 6mm

All 3 wrenches are of course well aged (like their owner) and unlikely to match any current tables

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Spear & Jacksons? Eric Olthwaite would be the man to ask about that.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

My first item made on the lathe in metal work at school was a copy of an Eclipse 142 T handle tap wrench, unfortunately after it went into the salt bath for heat treatment one of the jaws was left brittle, and it broke off, as it wasn't my fault, I got full marks for my work, but no tap wrench.

I have a Eclipse 142, it takes 3/16", and 1/4".

Ian S C

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

The only tap wrenches I have are home made,three different sizes,they cover everything from M4 to M16.

Nothing fancy,made from BMS flat and round,drilled/tapped,and a Vee filed to hold the taps

Using them for years now,no problem.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Many thanks to everyone for your replies.

Robbo's testimony tells me that probably the only way I'm going to get to the bottom of the vagaries of Eclipse's sizing across the ages is to acquire all of their tap wrenches from all periods. On a positive note, it looks like my 143 on its own will accommodate most of the sizes I'm going to use regularly, though I'll probably want to acquire the 141 and 142 as well, just because they're out there. I do have several of their bar-type tap wrenches.

On the subject of tap wrenches generally, it strikes me that one reason why very small tap wrenches are commonly available when their medium or even large cousins will accommodate very small taps anyway is probably that smaller wrenches allow for more sensitive feedback as to what is going on at the end of the tap when you're winding it in, and so reduce the chance of breakages. Personally, if there is room for it I always try to use a fairly long-handled (and therefore big) wrench so that the handle can act as a more effective guide to keeping the tap straight in the hole.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 06/09/2018 16:55:01

Edited By Bill Phinn on 06/09/2018 16:55:20

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Bill, just checked my Eclipse No.141, smallest square grip is 1.6mm and maximum 3.2mm AF, only the 1 gripping range, no step to a second smaller size.

Emgee

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Thanks for the information, Emgee.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Have just measured the two 'T' handled tap wrenches I have,

I – Is a Draper # 595 & takes 4 – 9 A/F,

2 – An unknown brand from a cheapo set that takes – 5 – 8 mm A/F

For smaller taps BA, ME & 1.5 – 2.5 mm the like I use a couple of pin chucks & a tiny standard wrench. I do have a large standard wrench that will accommodate a 16mm tap but have never had the need to use it for years.

George.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Thanks for this further information, George.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Updating this thread, I've just bought a new Eclipse 142 tap wrench off an Ebay seller. It's going straight back, I'm afraid.

There are two problems with it. Firstly, the flats on the set screw that holds the tommy bar captive are already rounded off after one tightening and loosening. If the tommy bar hadn't been such a loose fit in the hole it might have helped; as it is, the set screw has to be tightened down particularly hard to eliminate unacceptable wobble in the tommy bar. I've plenty of better-quality set screws to replace it with, but the second fault makes that not worthwhile.

The second fault is that taps will not sit straight when the jaws are tightened up, whether you use the outer jaws or the inner ones.

My older Eclipse 143 has none of these faults. Sadly, like a good many other established brands, it looks like Eclipse is in eclipse.

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

Or it is a knock off

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by AdrianR on 16/04/2020 19:05:32:

Or it is a knock off

You can judge for yourself.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

The grub screw looks like a typical Chinese cheapo item, I would say it's a copy or Eclipse are having their stuff made somewhere east of Ipswich. My Eclipse tap wrenches are decent bits of kit.

Tony

P.S. S & J are getting them made abroad

Edited By Tony Pratt 1 on 16/04/2020 19:16:20

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Bill, this scan is from a 1967 catalogue.

Regards Nick.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Thanks, Tony and Nick. I really like reading the old catalogues.

I'm pleased to report that the seller has already issued a full no quibble refund for the defective wrench, so 10 out of 10 to him for customer service.

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

I've got a set of 141, 142 & 143 Eclipse tap wrenches, circa 1975, so genuine, and well before the Chinese fakes. I find that there's a big gap in capacity between the 142 and 143; there's no way some taps (about M6 size IIRC) will go into the 142, but the 143 won't hold them properly. They won't enter the small part of the 143 jaws, and the large part won't close down as the threads disengage. Very irritating, so I have to rely on my apprentice skool made solid wrench for certain tap sizes!

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