Amadeal AMABL210E Review – Any Requests?

[Hugh Stewart-Smith 1Participant @hughstewart-smith1]

hello Nick,

We already have the 250E (ELS) lathe in stock – both 550 and 750 length. If you are anywhere near London, you’d be welcome to take a look.

hello Jason,

The EL250 and EL300 are already on our shopping list and expect to have stock later this year.                                  Looking forward to your review.                                                                                                                            (Luke is away for a couple of days in Bulgaria for a stag do. I’m not sure what state he’ll been in on his return!)

Regards to you both

Hugh                                                                                                                           Amadeal Ltd

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Might be worth running through the difference in inherent capabilities between an ELS machine and a manual / CNC (or “teach”) lathe for the benefit of folk who may be considering DIY upgrading to either full electronic control or full CNC in the future.

Despite the apparent overlap in capabilities between a carefully driven ELS lathe and a “teach” style machine basically running point to point by loading cut start and end points the mechanical (and financial) issues to be considered in upgrading are probably considerable.

Heck if it were that simple there would be no market for an ELS lathe. Might as well make a manual electronic CNC “upgrade ready” lathe for “a few £ more” and be done with it.

Clive

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Hugh, could you post the weights and overall lengths of the 250E 550 and the 250E 750. These are not given on your site.

 

Also, what are the differences between the 250E (ELS) and the EL250 you say is not yet in stock?

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Hugh. thanks for the invitation, but I’m a fair way from London and have no plans to visit in the near future.

Regards Nick.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

“Heck if it were that simple there would be no market for an ELS lathe. Might as well make a manual electronic CNC “upgrade ready” lathe for “a few £ more” and be done with it.”

Once you have fitted 2 axis drives there will be very little difference between the physical products.  Both will have a computer which may or may not incorporate the motion controller, a motion controller if not, and the actual drive electronics.  Given that the actual processor load can’t be very different between ALS and “real” CNC there wouldn’t be a difference in the processor type.  From what was described in the other thread the automated tasks sounded very much like what you can do with wizards in Mach except Mach 3 insists on an intermediate G-code step.  There is at least one GRBL version aimed at lathes which has “teach in” capability and can run on Arduino hardware with a 10″ display.  Would be the obvious way to make a low-cost CNC lathe that could do everything an ELS does and more.

[Hugh Stewart-Smith 1Participant @hughstewart-smith1]

hello Bill, thank you for pointing out the omission.

for the AMABL250E-550 dims:

Overall length 111cm but you will need some space either side for the following:

Tailstock at furthest will over hang by 13cm when fully extended

Left hand panel needs 13cm to remove.

Plus a small amount of knuckle room to turn handle of tailstock

The 750 would be c20cm longer and perhaps very slightly more for the larger tailstock (still boxed and so not measured!)

Net weights are 550 – 110kg and the 750 – 135kg

I’ll get my colleague Luke to forward manuals for both machines early next week.

Hugh                                                                                                                      Amadeal Ltd

[Clive Foster]

On Clive Foster Said:

Might be worth running through the difference in inherent capabilities between an ELS machine and a manual / CNC (or “teach”) lathe for the benefit of folk who may be considering DIY upgrading to either full electronic control or full CNC in the future.

…

Heck if it were that simple there would be no market for an ELS lathe. Might as well make a manual electronic CNC “upgrade ready” lathe for “a few £ more” and be done with it.

Clive

Good point, another article maybe.  My broad understanding though is this:

• Manual lathes require manual machinist skills.  When threading, that includes knowing how to set up the change gears: understanding the gear table, and how to fit gears on the banjo.  A posh lathe de-skills threading somewhat by providing a Norton Gearbox.
• An ELS massively de-skills setting up for threading. Threads are selected by pushing buttons, and there’s no need to mess with tables, and a banjo/gearbox.   Otherwise much the same as a manual lathe.
• CNC is very different.  Many manual skills fade into the background.  They are replaced by different skills, knowing how to set-up the CNC.  Though much CNC setup is done in CAD (learn that first), the operator still has to fill in the gaps, in advance.  For example, when threading manually, I adjust DOC by sight and ear as I go.  In contrast CNC has to be told what the DOC will be before the machine is started.   Manual machinists can fly by the seat of their pants,  CNC machinists have to plan ahead, which needs lots of new skills.

One good thing about ELS is it simplifies threading on an otherwise manual lathe, and anyone should be able to operate one without fuss.  CNC lathes can thread too, but setting up requires many new skills, and requires much more effort to get going.  CNC pays off when cutting complicated profiles and for repetition work.  I wouldn’t go CNC just for threading.

I think ELS is a safe, sensible accessory, threading for the masses!   CNC does far more, but it’s a major investment.

Dave

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

With respect Dave, you have missed my point above.  Once an ELS system can control 2 axes it has everything needed for CNC, and a good software front-end to a CNC controller can make it “look like” an ELS but also a whole lot more.  CNC need not be a major investment, in fact if I were designing a commercial ELS system from scratch I would base it on GRBL or possibly LinuxCNC, noting that this can run on a Raspberry Pi 5.  Tormach for example base their machines on LinuxCNC with a conversational programming UI.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Dave you have also got it wrong. The CNC setup is not done in CAD but in CAM and then a post processor produces the G-code that the machine can use.

You don’t have to have all the skills to run a CNC lathe you could cut threads or do any other basic tasks with simple wizards and never need to touch CAD or CAM. All these just need values putting in for the various dimensions

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well having spent some time over the last week doing various test cuts I can confirm that any doubts about the visibility of the vertically mounted LCD screen were unfounded.

Thinking about it while also using my 280 which has the gear lever positions marked on the vertical face just like many commercial lathes such as Harrisons and Colchesters, you only look at the front of the machine while selecting the gear and tend to step back slightly to do that. Once you start threading you don’t look at the selection levers or the gears on the Banjo so why look at the LCD screen? You just watch the tool and cross slide. Therefore the screen being on the vertical face is fine.

By way of a little teaser I’ve put together a quick compilation of some of the video I have taken. You will have to buy the mag to find out the full story or check out Amadeal’s website in the coming weeks for some more detailed video of how the various functions work.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

I think ELS is a safe, sensible accessory, threading for the masses! CNC does far more, but it’s a major investment.

Dave

Hi Dave

Looking at the cost of the earlier packages for an ELS 2 axis system it would be possible to convert to a CNC system for the same cost or even less with some careful planning.

I have no experience with the systems referred to by John but believe cost would be similar or perhaps less.

The advantage of a manually set lathe for threading is you can be almost certain the thread rate will be as intended because the gearing fixes the feed/rev relationship.

This relationship when using the ELS/CNC system is managed electronically, I have cut many threads using cnc in the full range of materials and have not experienced any pitch problems.

Emgee

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A single Axis ELS similar to this one can be had for £150 on you doormat. That is all the parts – controller, driver, stepper, encoder, belts and pullies so assuming you could use one controller then 2 axis should be possible for around £250.

The ELS should also get you closer to your desired pitch not a near enough number due to imperial/metric on metric/imperial without 127T gears.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Even with wizards you still need to input data, probably on some kind of microcomputer. A ELS is electronic gearbox with optional stops. A second axis make it even easer to use. As Dave says ths is not CAD/CAM It’s a lot cheaoer than a gearbox, quicker and more versatile tha nchnge gears. It could be a stepping stone to CAD/CAM but not everyone wants that. I don’t. I use my lathe as a tool for mostly ad hoc tasks I don’t want to have a lot of plannng or set-up to do a task.
If somone wants a CNC lathe that’s fine but it should not stop the availablity of manual lathes with simple ELS.
It is of course also a product differentiator for the manufacturer, they can sell a purely manual lathe, an ELS version or a full CNC machine.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Thanks for the video, sells it to me..

 

 

 

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