A polite note to beginners from ARC

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 20/05/2020 18:31:43:

Posted by Ketan Swali on 20/05/2020 17:59:09:

Posted by Bandersnatch on 20/05/2020 17:22:41:

Posted by Ketan Swali on 20/05/2020 14:42:35:

Yes, this shows off the ARC product in question. He does not get extra commission for this.

"extra" That's an interesting word. Does that mean he does get commission from Arc in other situations?

Coming from a person who once suggested to me 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen', I cant tell if your post is meant to be a joke or sarcasm …

Neither one Ketan – I honestly don't see why you would assume that.

Simply that the conjunction of "extra" with "commission" suggests, to me, that there is a level of commission which is not "extra" and I was curious.

Maybe curious (or picky) would be a better word than joke or sarcasm.

Wow! you have a long memory

Thanks Bandersnatch. The only reason I remembered that was because it was a reality check for me at that time, for how the market was changing.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, well spoken Ketan. I also think that both Neil Wyatt and JasonB should be appreciated more than they seem to be, I've learnt a lot of things on here by many people and although I've been in engineering all my working life, you never know everything, even in your own subject there will be aspects that you haven't come across. I try to help as many people that I can and I have been wrong a time or two, but will hold my hand up when something wrong is pointed out to me or I realise I've made a mistake, every day is a school day.

Regards Nick.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Mick B1 on 20/05/2020 18:53:56:

Wow. What sort of a spat have I missed to give rise to this?

No spat at all Mick. It’s all good

Ketan at ARC.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

You cannot please everyone all the time.

You cannot please some people any time, no matter what you do.

So, I say, don't worry about it, just do your best, most of us will be thankful for it.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I should also say that being foirum admin comes with being Ed of MEW so I'm not really a volunteer, although I spend vastly more time on here than I'm expected to!

It's Jason who really puts in the beyond the call of duty effort.

Neil

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

My first interaction with Ketan was when I was trying to rune up my CMD10 – bought from Machine Mart. He very kindly asked me to call him to explain how to do this and spent the best part of an hour on the phone and I hadn't even bought anything from him!

Since then I seem to have spent a lot of money, though not bought any main machines. I echo the comments made here and appreciate the technical tips that you can find from him in the forum.

Cheers, Ketan! Long may you help us!

Iain

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

I think I've been a forum member for about a week now, and the advice has been overwhelmingly helpful and friendly, especially from Jason and Ron, although there are many others.

In that time I've also had more experience of ARC (IIRC the first things I bought from ARC were back in 2007, but since then I've not got to use my lathe much in anger). The experience has been very positive, with Ketan and his colleague phoning me to talk through some checks with my SX2P.

I think that other beginners reading this would be well advised to outline their issue in as much detail as possible (with photos if appropriate), and if you've made any daft errors (as I have) – just admit it, address it, and move on.

I would say that regarding doing searches and reading – that is fine, but sometimes if you are a beginner, you're looking for confirmation that you've understood something, or that it's relevant to your issue. There are many subtleties in this game, as well as the more obvious stuff.

One of my other pastimes is building plastic scale model aircraft and cars, and ships in paper – I write build articles and reviews for a magazine, and contribute to a few forums. There has definitely been a sharp increase in beginners in scale modelling, and also RC cars. I think lockdown has had a positive effect at least in terms of people looking for a creative outlet, which has to be a good thing that should be encouraged.

Re. magazines and articles for beginners; this thread reminded me I got this ME/MEW book (Autumn 2010) which is pretty good. Maybe there are more recent ones, or if not, perhaps now would be a good time to revive them?

Thanks!

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Posted by Sakura on 20/05/2020 18:13:15:

I am a member of several technical forums. The members generally fall into similar types:

The very experienced in the subject who freely shares his hard earned experience

The know-it-all who does generally know what he's talking about but in a very condescending way to other lesser mortals

The know-it-all who won't accept any other point of view

The fairly experienced who wants to expand his knowledge

The beginner who wants to break into the subject but then starts to argue points with those more experienced

The beginner who wants to learn and is grateful for any help.

There are,of course, sub-divisions of all the above. I guess forums are just a reflection of everyday life.

I think many forums are the same – not just technical ones. It can get to be as much about ego as about fact, or helping someone. The thing about engineering is that it seems to be a discipline that's populated by many who for some reason feel inclined, or even entitled, to dispense with social niceties even at the best of times.

[CHARLES lipscombeParticipant @charleslipscombe16059]

I think it would be hard to find a more genuine and helpful bloke than Ketan anywhere. In my experience the goods he sells represent good value for money and are carefully chosen to be suitable for our hobby. Obviously many others share this opinion or his business would not have thrived as it has.

Nowadays I usually buy what are obviously ARC items from Ausee here in Australia, simply because that way I avoid horrendous postal charges from the UK. I would be interested to know what the link is between Ausee and ARC.

Re the forum: I am a self-taught machinist and have found a number of postings here which taken together have greatly helped me expand my limited skills. +1 for Larry Phelans comments above, and I hope Ketan draws strength from that

[paul raynerParticipant @paulrayner36054]

whats up with you all, arc is providing this forum and the mags a service and revenue. yes he is getting advertising from it ,but that business. his company I have personally found is second to none, not only Ketan but all his staff will go out of there way to help you even if they point you to one of there competitors and do not benefit form a sale themselves. Jason & Neil may or may not have had freebies, but so what they were used to contribute to the magazine. which before you all start moaning and groaning just think we all started at some time. and any help I think is great for the beginner as you all know it's not a cheap hobby.

How come nobody's having a dig at chesters readers tips where they receive a £30 voucher

as far as I'm concerned Ketan,Neil & Jason keep on doing what you are doing. take no notice of the jealous buggers

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

To be fair, Paul I haven't noticed anyone moaning to be honest, the amount of positivity is, frankly, embarrassing!

I accept I'm not perfect (yet) and I know there's a few folks whose backs I've put up over the years, but I do my best and try not to be too defensive in the face of criticism. Many good ideas have come from forum members and other readers.

Neil

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

One thing we have to remember is the experts tell us about 70 per cent of human communication is non-verbal. So forums are doomed to being full of misunderstandings and miscues in the absence of the body language, facial expressions, tone of voice etc that would accompany what is written if it were a face to face coversation.

So it all has to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

It would be nice if people would take others' posts at face value more, rather than colouring them with their own prejudices.

(On that score one could take a leaf out of Ketan's book).

Edited By Bandersnatch on 21/05/2020 01:27:31

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 21/05/2020 01:27:14:

It would be nice if people would take others' posts at face value more, rather than colouring them with their own prejudices.

(On that score one could take a leaf out of Ketan's book).

Edited By Bandersnatch on 21/05/2020 01:27:31

Unfortunately that's how reading works. The reader brings a whole different set of assumptions to the text from the writer. There really is no set face value. Two people read War and Peace, one will say its about war. The other about peace. And a third will say its about love. And all of them probably at variance with what the author intended. Language is a highly imperfect means of conveying information, let alone complex ideas.

Oh spit! Is my arts degree showing again?

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I have been a customer of ARC for 11 years and spent a fair bit (having looked my previous order page, quite a bit!) on their products. I have been very happy overall.

I would say that around 60% of my spend is with them, the rest split between Ebay (China sales) and other UK suppliers. I know that if I buy from China, I take a chance and have a wait of between a week and 2 months. My choice.

I have nothing but praise for ARC and recommend them above anyone else (at least one person has bought a machine etc on my recommendation). I have been a "proper" engineer for 37 years and do this at work on £400,000+ machines and in my shed on machines costing 1% of that for fun. When I have ever asked specific questions of ARC they have been knowledgeable and honest.

Long may they continue!

My only criticism is that the discount codes usually appear after a large order has gone in………………

Jim

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

Posted by Hopper on 21/05/2020 04:51:11:

Posted by Bandersnatch on 21/05/2020 01:27:14:

It would be nice if people would take others' posts at face value more, rather than colouring them with their own prejudices.

(On that score one could take a leaf out of Ketan's book).

Edited By Bandersnatch on 21/05/2020 01:27:31

Unfortunately that's how reading works. The reader brings a whole different set of assumptions to the text from the writer. There really is no set face value. Two people read War and Peace, one will say its about war. The other about peace. And a third will say its about love. And all of them probably at variance with what the author intended. Language is a highly imperfect means of conveying information, let alone complex ideas.

Oh spit! Is my arts degree showing again?

Very well put Hopper.

Text, purely on it's own, is extremely vulnerable to mis-interpretation.

Add to that already delicate situation the occasional oddball whose

only desire is to be offended, or upset, the result should be hardly

surprising. I'm sure we all know some people, in the physical world,

where we feel we are perpetually walking on eggshells.

In fact, there was one such example yesterday evening, on this very

forum.

I, too, am an occasional customer of ARC. And a happy one, at that.

I have noticed, in life, that the very best sales people aren't really

sales people at all. They tend to be people who are genuinely

passionate about what they represent. They share that passion, and

any actual sales seem almost to be a bonus, rather than the original

objective.

Sort of the reverse of "anyone expressing the desire to become a

politician, should be automatically barred from being one".

My own opinion, is that, while Ketan's presence on this forum may

have a direct relationship with his company, he is obviously

passionate about tools (as am I), and quite probably what can be

achieved with them.

The resulting high profile and regard that he enjoys on this forum has

been won through genuine, honest effort and, in my humble opinion,

entirely merited.

I'm also quite confident that my post will have upset someone, somewhere.

But, in view of the many thousands that visit this forum, one or two are not

going to interrupt my sleep pattern.

ATB,

Daniel

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

…. And, before Neil or Jason run off to their boudoirs in tears, I didn't forget you.

It's relatively early, and my single cell, that passes for a brain, was focused on the

defence of ARC.

The sentiments I gave expression to, apply equally to you two.

Have a good day everybody …..

ATB,

Daniel

[Anonymous]

Posted by Dr_GMJN on 20/05/2020 22:31:05:

The thing about engineering is that it seems to be a discipline that's populated by many who for some reason feel inclined, or even entitled, to dispense with social niceties even at the best of times.

It would appear that the same can be said of some of those who are, presumably, not engineers.

Andrew

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/05/2020 07:59:04:

Posted by Dr_GMJN on 20/05/2020 22:31:05:

The thing about engineering is that it seems to be a discipline that's populated by many who for some reason feel inclined, or even entitled, to dispense with social niceties even at the best of times.

It would appear that the same can be said of some of those who are, presumably, not engineers.

Andrew

Have I upset you, Andrew ….

[Anonymous]

Posted by Daniel on 21/05/2020 08:09:42:

Have I upset you, Andrew ….

Not in the least. My response was to the quoted text, not to your posts.

Andrew

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

Phew …. That's a relief

This kind of thread does nothing for one's paranoia either

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Very nice OP, concur with all that was said.

In fact i'll also go one further; i don't understand why people buy stuff off Ebay when it comes from China, and you are saving $2 but you're not sure of the quality. $200 ok, but $2 or even $20 on a larger order/item?

I've always been the type to support your local business, and bricks and mortar businesses, that actually pay business rates, have real life employees, and occupy proper commercial premises, not working from your spare bedroom…

Back in my day…., sorry i'll stop ranting….

[Leo F Byrne 1Participant @leofbyrne1]

I have always had complete satisfaction from Arc and have found Ketan and his company very helpful. Their products are of a very good standard and I will order from them in preference to any other firm . Although there are of course other reputable suppliers, Arc seem to go the extra mile. Leo

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Never had to deal with ARC, but met Keetan once at "Arrowgate", Question, "Would you buy a used car from him"? Definitely not! (I'd probably buy two).

And for those who found Sir John an abrasive cantankerous old s*d? His history in ingineering and problem solving gave him the right to call many, "Clumsy B*****d"

From another abrasive cantankerous old Yorkshire s*d who would also describe a spade as a spade and not the "Politically correct" a device for generating holes in the ground.

 

Regards Ian.

Pity that one company that used to advertise on here promoted MANY pages of dissatisfaction due to lack of honesty and integrity was tolerated by non exclusion for a Looooooong time.

Edited By Circlip on 21/05/2020 12:18:49

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 20/05/2020 14:42:35:

"I have often seen long threads where many have helped, without any expectation of thanks, and then suddenly the receiver of the knowledge comes back in on another thread giving the impression that 'he knows everything' on a subject, and is suddenly in expert"

Aah the old Armchair Internet Warrior. They have multiplied like rats during lockdown in many of my forums (here, motorcycling) to add to those who were there before

I've bought stuff from Arc (usually prompted by the Christmas catalogue coming with MEW) and from RDG and Chronos. All tooling and workshop equipment, no major machinery as I'd rather take my chances buying second hand stuff from eBay that I never see before parting with cash (did you get the irony there?). When retirement comes and the pension pot is accessible I will treat myself.

In reading their posts and articles I find Neil and Jason very knowledgeable and with a great willingness to teach and an ability to impart learning. Similarly from his posts and responses I find Ketan the same. Some degree of commercialism is to be expected when products have to be reviewed as very few of us have bottomless pockets. If they were not provided for free or on loan then there would be no reviews. Better to produce a series on machinery and equipment that the newbie could buy and start with than a hotch potch of old stuff that infest our workshops and sheds.

For anybody to criticise in the way that Ketan describes I personally find despicable and cowardly. But then I refer to my opening statement about AIW's – a plague on all their houses.

Well done Neil, Jason and Ketan for promoting and advancing our hobby

John

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