1.5 hp dc motor

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1.5 hp dc motor

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  • #388212
    sean logie
    Participant
      @seanlogie69385
      Posted by XD 351 on 30/12/2018 08:42:21:

      Sean , it would appear to me that you have little experience with mains powered electrical or electronic items so i would suggest you leave it alone until you can get some help from someone who does .

      Your controller may just be a simple ac to dc converter and pwm controller but i can't work out what the black lead does . The red ones are probably power but can't be sure . You don't know yet if the controller even works and it could be dangerous to power it up .

      I would look around on some various sites like ebay or bangood for a pwm controller that can handle the power requirements of the motor and buy one of them .

      I'm not going to be using the original speed controller . I have other plans .

      Sean

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      #388214
      I.M. OUTAHERE
      Participant
        @i-m-outahere

        Please be careful you are working with voltage that will kill you !

        #388263
        sean logie
        Participant
          @seanlogie69385

          20181230_122146.jpg20181230_122116.jpg20181230_122124.jpg20181230_122222.jpg20181230_122259.jpg20181230_122316.jpg

          Some more photos of the PCB , motor runs really smooth albeit at slow rpm 😁.

           

          Sean

          Edited By sean logie on 30/12/2018 12:43:31

          Edited By sean logie on 30/12/2018 12:54:06

          #388279
          SillyOldDuffer
          Moderator
            @sillyoldduffer

            Looking at the pictures I'd be confident enough to try powering it up.

            Very important to take care with the mains voltages and DC outputs, but with the board on an insulated surface (wooden table top) and a meticulous policy "don't touch anything while the power is ON" it should be safe enough for a test run. Also, the capacitors ( Two large Black Cylinders marked 400V) can store enough power to give you a nasty shock even after the board is disconnected from the mains. After the board has been powered up leave it alone for at least 20 minutes to discharge.

            The two red wires connect to a socket marked 'AC IN' so it's pretty certain they are the mains input. Like as not the electronics don't care one jot which way round Live and Neutral are but, as the wire on the right connects to a fuse, I'd connect that one to Live.

            The motor connects to the terminal block marked J3 and the sides are marked M+ and M-

            The control input is the red, green and black wire on socket J2. The circuit it connects to appears to be independent on the main board: it has it's own power supply off the yellow transformer and I believe the component marked PT1 is an opto-isolator. The board has been slotted around PT1 to separate the control section from the power section. Almost certainly the elaboration is to stop sweaty fat boys being electrocuted at the Gym!

            Have to guess what the nature of the control signal applied to J2 is. It could be digital (like a TV remote) in which case the original controls or a compatible substitute will be essential. However, as the board at J2 is marked GND ( Black wire ), TRX (Green), and 5V ( Red wire) I think there's a good chance an ordinary potentiometer will work. I'd try a Linear pot like f:0″>this one from ebay

            4.5k or 10k ohms should be fine. Green wire to the centre terminal. Red and Black to each side terminal. (If SLOW to FAST speed control goes the wrong way when the knob is turned, just swap Red and Black over.

            • you mustn't touch the board when it's switched on
            • freshly charged capacitors contain enough energy to blow the end off a screwdriver even after the board is disconnected.
            • board placed on an clear insulated surface, no trailing wires, cups of tea, or metal tools allowed.
            • Cross fingers, sacrifice a virgin, and it might work…

            Dave

            #388285
            Robert Atkinson 2
            Participant
              @robertatkinson2

              The control signal is marked TRX which is non-standard e. It's impossible to guess what the signal format is. Can you see what the markings on the 8 pin IC (chip) identified as U5? This might give more of a clue as to what it is.

              Robert G8RPI.

              #388293
              John Paton 1
              Participant
                @johnpaton1

                Can I just reiterate XD351 advice – please be very careful. 250v DC is much more potent as a killer / source of burns than the same voltage AC.

                Don't just rely on switching off at the mains before touching anything as those two brown capacitors store sufficient energy to hurt you.

                Electronics engineers would 'dump' the power from the capacitors using a resistive load to drain the power from them and keep this load applied before touching anything as capacitors tend to store a bit of energy even after they appear to have been discharged.

                If in doubt you can hook bit of wire across the capacitor terminals – but don't be surprised if there is a flash and a bang as you do it which will make you jump!!

                #388300
                Maurice Taylor
                Participant
                  @mauricetaylor82093

                  The control signal will most likely be a pulse width modulated signal,there is plenty of info about this on Google. A PWM signal can be easily created by an Arduino board.

                  Edited By Maurice Taylor on 30/12/2018 15:51:11

                  #388308
                  sean logie
                  Participant
                    @seanlogie69385

                    If you don’t hear from me you’ll know it gone tits up 😂🤣I’m having a beer just now will have a look later on 😉.

                    Sean

                    #388315
                    SillyOldDuffer
                    Moderator
                      @sillyoldduffer
                      Posted by John Paton 1 on 30/12/2018 15:16:18:

                      Can I just reiterate XD351 advice – please be very careful. 250v DC is much more potent as a killer / source of burns than the same voltage AC.

                      No-one would disagree with the advice to be very careful!

                      However, as a pedantic point of order, John has it the wrong way round – 230Vac is more dangerous than 230Vdc. Three reasons:

                      1. The current flow depends on the the applied voltage and the resistance of the victim (in ohms, not will-power). Mains voltage 230Vac is the RMS value (the average), and it peaks at about 320V. It can pass more current than 230Vdc, albeit in pulses. I=V/R
                      2. Humans are about 4 times more sensitive to AC current than DC.
                      3. 230Vdc causes a single muscle spasm, whereas AC causes many. A single spasm is more likely to throw you off.

                      It's best never to mess with electricity because the effects vary with voltage, frequency, individuals, and the nature of the contact. Rule of thumb says high voltages are more dangerous than low but it's unpredictable and/or contradictory. The lowest fatal shock I know of was from 32Vdc, admittedly in unlucky circumstances. DC is much more likely to arc than AC but 230Vdc is unlikely to arc to a human. In the USA they believe 110Vac to be safer than 230Vac systems because less current flows. Except muscle reaction to the shock means you're more likely to get stuck at 110Vac, so the current might flow for longer! In practice the two systems seem to be equally dangerous. Conversely, much higher voltages aren't always as lethal as might be confidently expected – electric chairs have failed to kill and people occasionally survive direct contact with the super-grid. Effects change with frequency as well. Radio Frequency power inflicts deep burns rather a shock. Is a shock from a VFD at full speed more dangerous than ordinary mains? No idea, and I'm not going to try it! Some people are far more sensitive to electricity than others which is why horseplay with a Megger is stupid.

                      Bottom line – better safe than sorry! Taking calculated risks with suitable precautions is fine, careless gambling isn't. Turning something on from a distance to test it is pretty safe compared with powering up and then poking around inside the same kit with a 6" nail and a belief in one's personal immortality…

                      Dave

                       

                      Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 30/12/2018 17:13:19

                      #388317
                      John Rudd
                      Participant
                        @johnrudd16576

                        If in doubt you can hook bit of wire across the capacitor terminals – but don't be surprised if there is a flash and a bang as you do it which will make you jump!!

                        Me: You should do this with a resistor….its good practice..

                        If you don't hear from me you'll know it gone tits up 😂🤣I'm having a beer just now will have a look later on 😉.



                        Sean

                        Me: Well I hope you dont look later unless you are sober….

                        Edited By John Rudd on 30/12/2018 17:15:39

                        #388354
                        sean logie
                        Participant
                          @seanlogie69385

                          Thanks Dave ,been having a few sherbits this evening ,best not try powering up the motor tonight . Appreciate your input .

                          Sean

                          #388363
                          Anonymous
                            Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 30/12/2018 17:10:17:

                            However, as a pedantic point of order, John has it the wrong way round – 230Vac is more dangerous than 230Vdc…..

                            Practical experience says that a shock from 125VDC hurt a darn sight more than one from 230VAC. Just as well I didn't get myself across the whole 250VDC of the battery.

                            Andrew

                            #388438
                            Pete Rimmer
                            Participant
                              @peterimmer30576

                              I've had numerous shocks from 240v AC over the years and none of them 'threw' me anywhere but I would not like to take a hit from 240VDC. I know a guy who has had three 600vdc shocks (tube train live rail) and is still alive but he had to be rescued from it each time. According his account you go into instant spasm and there's nothing you can do about it.

                              #388442
                              sean logie
                              Participant
                                @seanlogie69385

                                I too have had multiple 240v shocks over the years . My father was thrown across his workshop years ago by a poorly earthed 415v welder plug he nearly lost all the strength in his right arm ,never did fully recover from it .

                                Sean

                                #388450
                                roy entwistle
                                Participant
                                  @royentwistle24699

                                  I was always told that DC will contract your muscles so that you cannot let go if you grab hold

                                  ( 70 years ago working as an apprentice on very high AC and DC Power station equipment with mercury arc

                                  rectifiers )

                                  Roy

                                  #388455
                                  sean logie
                                  Participant
                                    @seanlogie69385
                                    #388457
                                    Chris Trice
                                    Participant
                                      @christrice43267
                                      Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 30/12/2018 17:10:17:

                                      Posted by John Paton 1 on 30/12/2018 15:16:18:

                                      Can I just reiterate XD351 advice – please be very careful. 250v DC is much more potent as a killer / source of burns than the same voltage AC.

                                      No-one would disagree with the advice to be very careful!

                                      However, as a pedantic point of order, John has it the wrong way round – 230Vac is more dangerous than 230Vdc. Three reasons:

                                      1. The current flow depends on the the applied voltage and the resistance of the victim (in ohms, not will-power). Mains voltage 230Vac is the RMS value (the average), and it peaks at about 320V. It can pass more current than 230Vdc, albeit in pulses. I=V/R
                                      2. Humans are about 4 times more sensitive to AC current than DC.
                                      3. 230Vdc causes a single muscle spasm, whereas AC causes many. A single spasm is more likely to throw you off.

                                      It's best never to mess with electricity because the effects vary with voltage, frequency, individuals, and the nature of the contact. Rule of thumb says high voltages are more dangerous than low but it's unpredictable and/or contradictory. The lowest fatal shock I know of was from 32Vdc, admittedly in unlucky circumstances. DC is much more likely to arc than AC but 230Vdc is unlikely to arc to a human. In the USA they believe 110Vac to be safer than 230Vac systems because less current flows. Except muscle reaction to the shock means you're more likely to get stuck at 110Vac, so the current might flow for longer! In practice the two systems seem to be equally dangerous. Conversely, much higher voltages aren't always as lethal as might be confidently expected – electric chairs have failed to kill and people occasionally survive direct contact with the super-grid. Effects change with frequency as well. Radio Frequency power inflicts deep burns rather a shock. Is a shock from a VFD at full speed more dangerous than ordinary mains? No idea, and I'm not going to try it! Some people are far more sensitive to electricity than others which is why horseplay with a Megger is stupid.

                                      Bottom line – better safe than sorry! Taking calculated risks with suitable precautions is fine, careless gambling isn't. Turning something on from a distance to test it is pretty safe compared with powering up and then poking around inside the same kit with a 6" nail and a belief in one's personal immortality…

                                      Dave

                                      Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 30/12/2018 17:13:19

                                      It also depends on the route that the current takes through your body to earth. Through the chest obviously presents a higher risk.

                                      #388458
                                      sean logie
                                      Participant
                                        @seanlogie69385

                                        Anyways ….. back to the job in hand and on topic ,I’m confused enough without being side tracked by the shocking stories (No pun intended &#128521

                                        Sean

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