Cutting a Morse Taper

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Cutting a Morse Taper

This topic has 30 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 3 December 2011 at 07:59 by Springbok.

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29 November 2011 at 21:28 #5779
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
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29 November 2011 at 21:28 #78881
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
I’d like to make a tailstock die holder, but I can’t work out how to cut the MT2 rear part.

My lathe does have a compound slide but looking at the data, I would need to set it to 1 degree and so many minutes which is beyond its capability I think.

Anyone point me in the right direction?
29 November 2011 at 21:59 #78882
Steve F
Participant
@stevef
Hi Wolfie

I can tell you how i did it when i nneded to make a plug for my rotary table.

I had 2 morse tapper centres.

Chuck a piece material in the lathe and then centre drill. Place a centre in the tailstock and then suspend the other MT2 centre between the tailstock and the centre drilled hole.

You can then use a clock gauge in the toolholder and set over the topslide to get the taper of the suspended centre. It takes a bit of time to get it right. It worked great for me.

Hope this helps

regards

Steve

PS i am only a beginner and i cant believe i can actulally help someone for a change
30 November 2011 at 07:34 #78901
ady
Participant
@ady
Anyone point me in the right direction?

I tried a few different systems for my MT1

The best for me was to measure an MT1 which was fine, at the thick end and thin end over a set distance, about 2 inches, 16 turns of the leadscrew on my imperial lathe.

This difference in taper diameter (in millimeters) was halved, call it the X-factor

Then I fiddled about with a dial indicator and my compound slide until by moving the saddle 2 inches the dial indicator, set against the side of the compound, moved the dial indicator the X-factor distance

Make sure everything is snug on the compound, no wobblyness for the cut.

Did this a few times now and got a very decent first fit, only needed to polish the taper up with some fine grit paper after that.

You’ll get a few different suggestions, people have their own way of doing tapers and the best system is the one which works best for you.

edit

If you do use a profile/tracking system like in the first reply be very careful to track as exactly along the centreline as possible, if you mistakenly track away from the centreline along a cone then it will give you a bad taper.

edit2

Because it’s pretty fiddly to set up once I get a good one I try and do a batch of 2 or more morse as needed.

Tapering out from the chuck towards the tail or the tail towards the chuck needs to be tested out along the full traverse of the cut, you can get fouling issues

I haven’t done this yet but it ocurred to me that if I needed an MT1 BORE then this would be a great time to drill and bore an MT1 hole.

since my male tapers are spot on….by leaving everything set exactly as it is and simply replacing the cutting tool with a boring tool…in theory I’m laffing.

Haven’t tried that one yet though.

Edited By ady on 30/11/2011 08:01:45
30 November 2011 at 07:58 #78903
_Paul_
Participant
@_paul_
Morse Tapers.

I cut between centres using a device that sits in the tailstock and lets me “set over” without actually fiddling with the tailstock settings.

Using measurements from a printed table I have at home set the correct amount of set over then I make my first taper, “blue” it with a felt marker then use a “jump sleeve” the correct size to check the fit.

Normally requires a couple of small adjustments on the set over device and a subsequent skims to achieve an acceptable result.

Regards

Paul
30 November 2011 at 08:45 #78906
Les Jones 1
Participant
@lesjones1
Arc Euro (and probably other suppliers) sell blank end morse taper arbors. I have considered this option to make a tailstock die holder. I have also considered just making one to fit in a chuck.

Les.
30 November 2011 at 09:17 #78907
John Coates
Participant
@johncoates48577
Posted by Les Jones 1 on 30/11/2011 08:45:44:

Arc Euro (and probably other suppliers) sell blank end morse taper arbors. I have considered this option to make a tailstock die holder. I have also considered just making one to fit in a chuck.

I thought of this Les and bought one but the machinable stub is too short for the slide rod for my design of die holder (double ended for different diameter dies and about 3″ long)
30 November 2011 at 09:20 #78909
Terry Lane
Participant
@terrylane
The set up looks like this – please note, however, that in this shot the centre is in the wrong way around for what you want to do – I was setting up to cut a 2MT socket at the time!

Edited By Tel on 30/11/2011 09:21:53
30 November 2011 at 10:38 #78913
NJH
Participant
@njh
Hi John

You say:-

I thought of this Les and bought one but the machinable stub is too short for the slide rod for my design of die holder (double ended for different diameter dies and about 3″ long)

I managed this successfully. The stub end is soft so I put the blank end arbor in the headstock morse taper socket and bored out, to the depth of the stub, a socket to take a piece of ground rod which I then secured with Loctite. The die holder is a close sliding fit on this rod – one end is made to hold 1″ dia dies and the other 13/16″ dies. It has worked well for many years!

Learning to turn a taper is useful but, with the price of a blank less thas a fiver, probably not “cost effective”! The bought item also has a nicely ground finish unlikely to be achieved by turning.

Regards

Norman
30 November 2011 at 12:14 #78918
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
Hi There

Drill and ream the blank.

Fit a 10mm or 3/8 bar to it.

Worked for me.

regards David
30 November 2011 at 15:49 #78922
maurice bennie
Participant
@mauricebennie99556
Hi Wolfie. Try “model engineers handbook” by Tubal Cain .page 3.2 all the morse tapers from 1 to 7 and many others calculated for you.

Best wishes Maurice
30 November 2011 at 19:21 #78949
Terry Lane
Participant
@terrylane
OK – a no2 Morse Taper needs an offset of 1° 25′ 50″ (half the included angle) now, knowing this, how do you go about setting it? With great difficulty for most of us, I suspect, so back to direct setting with known ‘good’ taper – done carefully this will give spot on results every time.

The KISS principal is alive and well, and living in the wilds of Oz.
30 November 2011 at 19:31 #78950
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
Thanks all, useful stuff there.

Now I have the ME Handbook and I’ve just looked at the page in question. OK I’m not sure on terminology but I’m assuming that the taper per inch is the change in radius over one inch from an axis running the length of the metal?

A bit like a hill is 1 in 3, is then an MT2 taper 0.04995 in 1 (or 1 in approx 20!)

If so then working out the angle via:

tan A = opp/adj

tan a = .04995/1 = .04995

so tan-1 .04995 = 3.177 degrees

Contradicts directly with the figures given here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_taper#Morse which gives a figure of 1° 25′ 50″

Unless I am misunderstanding what each measurement is…..

Edited By Wolfie on 30/11/2011 19:31:56

Edited By Wolfie on 30/11/2011 19:37:59
30 November 2011 at 19:41 #78951
Terry Lane
Participant
@terrylane
Don’t get lost in the numbers Wolfie – just get hold of a known, good, MT2 centre and work from that.
30 November 2011 at 20:40 #78954
AndyB
Participant
@andyb47186
Hi Wolfie,

I do it similar to Steve, but use an adjustable boring head with a straight arbour centre set into it.

Set a centre-drilled (they always are) blank MT arbour in the mandrel and place a centre between it and in the boring head centre (point facing the headstock). You will need to use a drive plate and dog to turn your stock.

Adjust the boring head towards you until the side of the centre clocks true along its length.

The reason for winding it towards you is that you can cut towards the wide end using the leadscrew so giving you a finish point so you know that it is the correct length and width. You don’t have to worry about setting over the topslide.

Don’t forget, if you copy a centre then the length of the centre is the only true taper!

Then centre drill your stock and place it in a centre in the mandrel and the boring head and away you go.

I am slow at setting up and don’t do it very often so it takes me about 10 minutes before I am ready to cut. I think that is pretty good, especially as my maths is crap!

Works for me every time; I have made 1MT tapers, one with a screwcut nose to fit a chuck to my rotary table and a 2JT taper for mounting a drill chuck on a tapping tool. Sits perfectly true.

Andy
30 November 2011 at 22:00 #78958
Harold Hall 1
Participant
@haroldhall1
The method suggested Wolfie, using a second taper between centres, is without doubt the easiest, that providing you have a second taper and you do need one for each Morse taper being cut. I do accept that a temporary taper could be turned on a piece of metal held in the lathe’s three jaw.

If you do not have a suitable second taper, or wish to machine some other precise value, then the method I use may be of help. A test piece is required enabling two diameters to be measured at a given distance apart ensuring the difference lines up with the taper required. Having made the test piece it can then be used every time you make that particular Morse, or other, taper so that it is easier second time round.

The method is illustrated here

I do like Tel your method of extending the reach of you dial indicator.

Harold

Edited By Harold Hall 1 on 30/11/2011 22:26:34
30 November 2011 at 22:46 #78960
Anonymous
The maths goes like this: the taper quoted is actually the change in diameter over an inch. So for one half of the taper the decrease in radius is half the given value.

Taper per inch (on diameter) = 0.04995

Taper per inch (on radius) = 0.024975

tan-1(0.024975) = 1.4306647°

Which in real money is 1° 25′ 50.39″

Regards,

Andrew
30 November 2011 at 23:47 #78963
dcosta
Participant
@dcosta
Hello Wolfie.

Please take a look at my tailstock die holder here:

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/albums/member_photo.asp?a=18517&p=305494

My starting point was a MT2 taper I bought from Chronos (?).

Please note the rod glued (and pressed) into the MT2 is hollow allowing me to do longer work.

Rehgards

Dias Costa
1 December 2011 at 00:32 #78966
Wolfie
Participant
@wolfie
Thank you all again, loads to go on there.

OK assuming I buy a couple of blank tapers, how do I hold them in the chuck to drill and ream them out?
1 December 2011 at 00:34 #78967
Terry Lane
Participant
@terrylane
Thanks Harold – that gadget has the added advantage, not really obvious in the pic, of the blade being about 3/8″ wide, set vertically, so that, within reasonable limits, you are not concerned with setting it on centre height – one more little simplification to the process!

AND I was working on one of your projects at the time!

Edited By Tel on 01/12/2011 00:41:41
1 December 2011 at 02:01 #78969
David Littlewood
Participant
@davidlittlewood51847
Wolfie,

Surely the best method is to put the taper itself in the headstock. That is (a) the easiest way, and (b) the one that gives you the very best degree of concentricity. However, it would be better to buy a blank which has a threaded bore at the tail end so you can hold it in place with a drawbar, otherwise light cuts will be essential.

David
1 December 2011 at 03:36 #78973
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Posted by Wolfie on 01/12/2011 00:32:17:

Thank you all again, loads to go on there.

OK assuming I buy a couple of blank tapers, how do I hold them in the chuck to drill and ream them out?

Hi Wolfie,

you don’t. Take the chuck off and fit the taper directly into the spindle. You may need an adapter sleeve to accommodate it if the tapers are different. eg MT4 to MT3.

Drilling it should not be a problem with slippage. after all MT drills are used all the time and your MT tailstock chuck is used for drilling all the time without slipping.

So much to learn and so little time ,

Regards

Terry
1 December 2011 at 08:37 #78980
Harold Hall 1
Participant
@haroldhall1
With that explanation Tel, I like it
even more!

Pleased to see you have made the
dividing head, looks good, the design appears to have become quite
popular.

This reminds us that sometimes one has to bore an internal taper and the method being suggested is equally appropriate for that also. That is no doubt, why your photograph shows it being set up with the smaller end nearest to the lathes mandrel.

Harold
1 December 2011 at 08:44 #78981
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Harold,

When making my milling cutter holder to your design I used your ‘two diameters’ method, as outlined in the book for the Morse taper and I’m glad to report that it was spot on first time. I have also used the dial indicator method and found that slight adjustments were needed but managed to get it right in the end.

Regards

Terry
1 December 2011 at 09:38 #78985
Harold Hall 1
Participant
@haroldhall1
That’s good to know Terry! In my case, after I had used the method two or three times I ceased even checking the results.

Harold
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