Old Computers – why do people bother

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Old Computers – why do people bother

This topic has 105 replies, 41 voices, and was last updated 7 February 2020 at 16:56 by An Other.

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31 January 2020 at 11:37 #449991
Nick Clarke 3
Participant
@nickclarke3
I appreciate that there is far too much waste of resources nowadays but as someone who uses a computer I am surprised how much time and heartache is spent trying to keep in service computers, printers and software that is basically time expired.

I know it is a shame when time comes to update a correctly operating but outdated computer, and also the expense updating some commercial programs in the home setting (eg Photoshop, Autocad), particularly if they have been bought when employed and now only used occasionally privately.

BUT

It is accepted that some things eg non-digital TVs and analogue phones just don't work anymore. Music is no longer available on cassettes, and rarely on vinyl, VHS and other video formats are no longer used. So why should computers be expected to last forever?

Awaiting the storm so going to 3D print a tin hat now!
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31 January 2020 at 11:37 #35736
Nick Clarke 3
Participant
@nickclarke3
31 January 2020 at 11:58 #450002
Thor 🇳🇴
Participant
@thor
Well Nick, I do have a couple of old computers running Windows XP (dual boot with Linux), I keep the old computer because it enables me to run a few old programs that do the jobs I want. If I want to access the Internet on the old computer I simply reboot into Linux. For me and the work I do it is too expensive to buy a new computer/Operating system. It doesn't take any time to have the XP part running, I do occasionally update the Linux but that doesn't take much time.

Thor
31 January 2020 at 11:58 #450003
Andrew Tinsley
Participant
@andrewtinsley63637
I have some scientific software that would cost well over £10,000 to buy today. I still use this programme and to do so requires me to have a computer that supports 5 1/4"inch floppies, uses a very early version of windows. and it also needs a parallel port output that drives a dot matrix printer.

So far, I have had no problem in keeping such an archaic system working. I would be quite happy to go over to the modern version of this programme, if Nick would like to fork out the £10,000 plus that would be required. Somehow, I don't think this will happen!

Andrew.
31 January 2020 at 12:01 #450005
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
Vinyl seems to be making a comeback for "True" audiophiles (together with the clicks and pops and k******d diamond tips) and someone has actually thought of resurrecting cassettes.

Regards Ian.
31 January 2020 at 12:36 #450009
Emgee
Participant
@emgee
Like Andrew I also run some old software that will not work with W10 so my older machines are kept to run these programs as and when, also some external devices won't download or record data via a USB to Serial adaptor so still need Serial port working.
These old computers are never connected to the net so security is not a problem

Emgee
31 January 2020 at 12:42 #450012
An Other
Participant
@another21905
And you could ask why people keep restoring and using antique cars, and historic buildings, and even old lathes and mills, and…..
31 January 2020 at 13:01 #450017
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
Most people would cheerfully buy new computers were it not for having to suss out legions of changes. Different look and feel, stuff moved or replaced, friendly features replaced with complicated gizmos, new options & jargon galore, privacy and security configuration in ruins, old certainties blasted into oblivion, the list is endless!

Upgrading is distinctly off-putting when that old computer does everything wanted of it. And not everyone has the time or inclination to plunge into unwanted new learning and several dozen new toy thingamajigs!

Dave
31 January 2020 at 13:23 #450021
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Sadly, old computers that run XP are needed to run some elderly CNC systems.

Also I still have my old BBC Master and a Model B, unused for about 10 years or more.

Neil
31 January 2020 at 13:34 #450024
Mick B1
Participant
@mickb1
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 31/01/2020 13:01:35:

Most people would cheerfully buy new computers were it not for having to suss out legions of changes. Different look and feel, stuff moved or replaced, friendly features replaced with complicated gizmos, new options & jargon galore, privacy and security configuration in ruins, old certainties blasted into oblivion, the list is endless!

Upgrading is distinctly off-putting when that old computer does everything wanted of it. And not everyone has the time or inclination to plunge into unwanted new learning and several dozen new toy thingamajigs!

Dave

Absolutely.

I spent 30 years in the MRP/ERP software industry, and the gobsmacking intellectual waste as each generation of software developers resolutely trashed the bodies of knowledge and specialised terminology built up in the previous one – and restarted from progressively less well-founded principles – was what characterised the whole period from my viewpoint. The MRP capabilities of the system I was working with at retirement were materially inferior to the first one I implemented in the 1980s.

So you'll forgive me if I consider the latest contortions being forced on consumers as just another twist of a self-serving fashion industry.
31 January 2020 at 13:59 #450029
nigel jones 5
Participant
@nigeljones5
The psu on my cnc computer expired yesterday, got to have serial port and xp to run my version of Mach3. £20 including postage for replacement pc off ebay….thats why some of us still need old computers.
31 January 2020 at 14:20 #450031
Ady1
Participant
@ady1
xp pro is brill and runs everything from DOS upwards in 32bit mode

win7 pro has been fine so far for newer 64bit stuff
31 January 2020 at 14:28 #450035
Baz
Participant
@baz89810
I would love to have a nice new Windows 10 computer and if someone will tell me that I can definitely run Autocad and Solidworks 2006 on it I will go out and buy one. At present all Cad and Cam is on on XP, one mill runs on Windows 95 and the other on Windows 98.
31 January 2020 at 14:52 #450045
Richard Marks
Participant
@richardmarks80868
Posted by Circlip on 31/01/2020 12:01:50:

Vinyl seems to be making a comeback for "True" audiophiles (together with the clicks and pops and k******d diamond tips) and someone has actually thought of resurrecting cassettes.

Regards Ian.

Unfortunately modern vinyl is no better than a cd as it would be made in a digital form
31 January 2020 at 15:02 #450047
Martin of Wick
Participant
@martinofwick
Because in the world of personal computing it is debatable whether you are actually getting anything better. I have old machines that run the old software very well, but that doesn't raise money for the likes of Intel and microsloth.

So con the gullible punters by generating ever more bloated software with its attendant extra quotient of embedded spyware and 'oh well sir, you need the latest megadweeb special…' at some vast increase in cost to get the unwanted and generally useless features of the supposedly improved software.

It is all a right con, and resistance is definitely not futile.
31 January 2020 at 15:03 #450048
Nick Clarke 3
Participant
@nickclarke3
I am not for one minute suggesting that old kit can still be made to work (or that using vintage computers and software is not a valid leisure activity a la vintage bikes etc) but my original question was not that.

If you need to use software that costs £10,000 then surely that is the price. If you have an older version you may have a bargain, but too many of the people I talk too (mainly not here I might add) seem to be saying the computer equivalent of:

I have this old car. it is not made any more. I can't get parts for it. Why can't I get parts for it? I want to play musicassettes but I can't buy them anymore. It needs leaded fuel – where can I buy it? It doesn't have an MOT but I want to keep using it and not buy a new car.

I know there are many enthusiasts who would get round all of these problems – but not if you only wanted to drive from A to B surely? You would spend (possibly a lot) of money on a new car.

So why do we expect old computers to keep serviceable? It can be a tragedy when they can no longer be used, but it will happen, just as it has happened to analogue mobile phones and pre-digital TVs – and the consequential loss to CAD and CAM kit is not the fault of the hardware or software supplier.

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 31/01/2020 15:30:01
31 January 2020 at 15:07 #450049
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
Old pc's running out of date operating systems are best kept off the internet. The increasing problem with them are the electrolytic capacitors failing on older motherboards and power supply units. It is possible to replace them, and the skills needed can be learned, and I recommend googling "madcaps forums", a very valuable source of expertise on the subject.
31 January 2020 at 15:35 #450059
Ron Colvin
Participant
@roncolvin83430
I am still using a 12 year old Dell computer that was hardly state of the art when I bought it.

The operating system is Windows Vista home. The only program that I have run on this , is Virtualbox.

On this virtual machine I have Autocad 2000 running under Windows 2000. Solidworks 2003 running on a separate Windows 2000, and Lubuntu for accessing the internet and running the few other office and graphics programs that I require (I used to run Ubuntu but later versions became too resource demanding).

This system still meets all my computing needs.
31 January 2020 at 16:23 #450065
Iain Downs
Participant
@iaindowns78295
A Thumbs up for Ron.

I have 'virtual' machines going back over 20 years – just in case I have to fix something I broke in the dawn of time (I was / am a sort of software developer).

All running on a machine that's *only* about 8 years old.

There is a con here. The word processor I was using in (say) 1985 did all the things I needed, as did the spreadsheet and presentation tool. Just what real value has the last 35 years brought?

Iain
31 January 2020 at 16:24 #450066
Iain Downs
Participant
@iaindowns78295
Oh and they were probably faster as well despite the 3 orders of magnitude of performance gain of the hardware.

Signed

Bitter Old Techie.
31 January 2020 at 17:33 #450084
Nick Clarke 3
Participant
@nickclarke3
Posted by Iain Downs on 31/01/2020 16:24:42:

Oh and they were probably faster as well despite the 3 orders of magnitude of performance gain of the hardware.

Signed

Bitter Old Techie.

Like Moderator Neil I have a BBC Master here with View a quite capable word processor. I was not saying that old systems can't work, of course they can – it is merely the view that I have often heard expressed that "I have an old system so I must be able to keep it going no matter what" and "I bought this software x years ago and so hardware needs to be kept compatible for me to do so"

Why?

Things get superseded.

One price I saw for Autocad for example was £8500. If you have an older copy that needs older hardware why should any sensible business thinking of its shareholders go out of its way to enable you to continue to run it – that sells nothing – and if the software being sold today does not need hardware compatibility why should the hardware or OS people provide it?

Like many here I run a lot of old hardware and software – but I am realistic enough to realise that it can come to an end at any point and then the only way forward is to update or substitute for other perhaps cheaper and maybe less 'professional' choices.

As Pooh Bah said in the Mikado "I do it, It revolts me, but I do it!"
31 January 2020 at 17:52 #450087
Ady1
Participant
@ady1
Tracks nowadays won't ever sound as good as they were when we were young because our audible hearing range decreases quite significantly with age

This is the principle behind the mosquito

So it doesn't matter how much we hanker after the sounds of the old days, we can't hear them anymore
31 January 2020 at 18:09 #450091
Ron Colvin
Participant
@roncolvin83430
If my old Dell decides to give up the ghost I will be able transfer the virtual machines over to a new machine that I have installed Virtualbox onto. Although I do not have any msdos virtual machines running, if I had, they could also be moved across.

The main problem with running old programs is the ability to access ancillaries (printers, plotters etc.). There will not be drivers available for modern equipment, and if you still have the old appliances in working order, the new computer will not have the interfaces for them (centronics, rs232).
31 January 2020 at 19:20 #450109
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Ron Colvin on 31/01/2020 18:09:12:

[…]

Although I do not have any msdos virtual machines running, if I had, they could also be moved across.

[…]

.

My earliest version of Autocad actually needs to be used on an old machine … because it looks for the [hardware] Maths co-processor !!

MichaelG.
31 January 2020 at 19:45 #450118
Robert Atkinson 2
Participant
@robertatkinson2
There are a number of things that NEED old machines. A good example is programming older two-way radios. some of the programmers relied on the CPU clock speed to provide critical timing so not only do you need the right operating system and processor you need the right speed. Virtul machines don't help with that. Industries like Aerospace and nuclear which have long life span products and hde igh reliabilty can use very old machines in test systems because migrating to a new system would mean re-validating the software and hardware which can literally cost millions and take years. There is a small but healthy market for PDP-11 machines and clones for this type of application. Recently I had to find a copy of MS-DOS 6.22 to format a replacement HDD (actually a CF card) for a not that old Rhode & Schwarz radio test set. The original HDD was dead. The auto install program (which has to run from a PCMCIA card so that needed an older laptop) specifically looked for that version of format and FDISK and created non-stanard partions for the instrument software.

Robert G8RPI
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