Sharpening Milling cutters

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Sharpening Milling cutters

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  • #133168
    Alan .204
    Participant
      @alan-204

      Just wondered how many of you chaps sharpen your milling cutters, i made the Harold Hall grinding rest a while ago and today I made the simple oblong block and sharpened some end mills the result was ok but I do see a difference compared to a new cutter, but it's the first time I've done it so will improve over time hopefully, how many sharpen there cutter's opposed to buying new ones.

      Alan.

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      #22908
      Alan .204
      Participant
        @alan-204
        #133174
        Sub Mandrel
        Participant
          @submandrel

          I do, with reasonable success, but so far only on the ends. I want to make an adaptor for 1mm angle grinder discs, for cutting gullets across the end of cutters.

          Neil.

          #133177
          Russell Eberhardt
          Participant
            @russelleberhardt48058

            I sharpen my milling cutters (end mills and slitting saws) using the HH grinding rest and am very happy with the results. Below 1/4 inch though I just throw them away and buy new.

            Russell.

            #133181
            Rik Shaw
            Participant
              @rikshaw

              Hello Alan – At the moment I do not have any facility for cutter grinding, or the room. Apart from that, I spent some years in a tool & cutter department and I think I would rather be doing something else these days.

              I have collected hundreds of HSS cutters over the years from car boots and the like and being only a light user expect them to last me out. In order to eke them out I use a small selection of good quality carbide cutters whenever I can.

              That is not to say that the ability to tiddle up the ends of the HSS tools would be quite handy – it would, but there is a cutter grinder business not far from me that will touch up my cutters for not a lot and if I ever feel the need I will head their way.

              Rik

              PS Saw a lovely example of a STENT tool & cutter grinder at the Midlands Model show last week..

              #133184
              Thor 🇳🇴
              Participant
                @thor

                I hone slightly worn slot drills with a diamond hone. The worn ones I try to grind to get them sharper, as Russell I don't sharpen the small cutters. They can be used to make round HSS toolbits for tu rning or flycutting. The slot drills I sharpen is used for roughing cuts, a new one for the final.

                Thor

                #133189
                Trevor Drabble 1
                Participant
                  @trevordrabble1

                  p1000203.jpg

                  p1000215.jpg

                  Edited By Trevor Drabble on 20/10/2013 19:45:24

                  #133190
                  Another JohnS
                  Participant
                    @anotherjohns

                    I completed a Worden T&C grinder from Hemingway. (Completed? Is anything *ever* complete?)

                    Use it for lathe tools, but have not yet sharpened an end mill. I'm collecting dull ones, and this snowy upcoming Winter I expect to sit down and get proficient at it.

                    I really enjoyed the Worden build – although it was tough to get motivated to build a part (say, radius grinding attachment) after completion, the sense of accomplishment was really nice!

                    Does that help?

                    Another JohnS.

                    #133191
                    Trevor Drabble 1
                    Participant
                      @trevordrabble1

                      Couple of snaps above from the Midlands Show. The Stent as refered to by Rik plus something a little different. Sorry, did not know how to add text to the pics.

                      Trevor

                      #133274
                      Alan .204
                      Participant
                        @alan-204

                        Thanks guys, when i sharpened the end mills i went with the 5 degree Harold talks about in his book but i didn't put on the second edge at 12 degrees (didn't read that bit just started grinding, pillock i know) but they seam to cut well is this ok or do i need to do it next time.

                        Al.

                        #133334
                        richardandtracy
                        Participant
                          @richardandtracy

                          On a side note, I'm about to modify my Stevenson Hex ER32 collet holder to put a clamp groove about 6mm/0.25" up from the base so it can be clamped with the axis vertically up on a milling bed.

                          I need this to allow cnc thread milling inside & outside circular objects while permitting easy zeroing of the machine – will zero the spindle in the X & Y axes then clamp the tooling around a bar in the spindle, and then clamp the holder to the bed. This is quicker & more likely to be exactly vertical than putting the Stevenson Hex collet in a vice, and it means I don't loose throat height from the depth of a vice either.

                          Should be a useful mod to an already useful little tool.

                          Regards,

                          Richard.

                          #133335
                          Robonthemoor
                          Participant
                            @robonthemoor

                            John' yes, AL & I have a surface grinder, have you made a jig to fit the cutter into, so you can sharpen them on the surface grinder? If so would you post pic's. We do have a jig to sharpen punches & chisels for it.

                            rob

                            #133336
                            Robonthemoor
                            Participant
                              @robonthemoor
                              Posted by Robonthemoor on 22/10/2013 09:04:22:

                              John' yes, AL & I have a surface grinder, have you made a jig to fit the cutter into, so you can sharpen them on the surface grinder? If so would you post pic's. We do have a jig to sharpen punches & chisels for it.

                              rob

                              Sorry john just seen the link on your post, didn't see it when I read it, silly me, that explains how you hold then.

                              #133371
                              Sub Mandrel
                              Participant
                                @submandrel

                                > I'm about to modify my Stevenson Hex ER32 collet

                                Good idea Richard, but as they are hardened, let me/us know how you get on before I trash mine

                                Neil

                                #133380
                                Robonthemoor
                                Participant
                                  @robonthemoor

                                  Neil' why are you modifying the Stevenson Hex ER 32 collet? & what into dont know bit small to become a space rocket! Have I mist something. Properly mist something, I live in the sticks, it's pigeon shooting season so no mail again.

                                  rob

                                  just read Richards post, all clear now.nerd ( I think)

                                  Edited By Robonthemoor on 22/10/2013 14:50:15

                                  #133383
                                  richardandtracy
                                  Participant
                                    @richardandtracy
                                    Posted by Stub Mandrel on 22/10/2013 13:01:08:

                                    Good idea Richard, but as they are hardened, let me/us know how you get on before I trash mine

                                    Neil

                                    Hmm. Wasn't aware of that. Anyway, we shall see. If it's too bad, maybe I'll be forced to make the adaptor I dreamt up in a mad moment – a fixture to allow a 4.5" angle grinder to pivot vertically on the toolpost (after putting rather a lot of 'something' over the lathe to protect it from grit).

                                    As for the reason why I need to modify it.

                                    Well, I have a little cnc engraver/very light mill (as well as my Warco WMT300 combi lathe). The cnc machine has a fairly low gantry and I want to thread pen barrels, caps and sections by using thread milling (I need an M7.4×0.55, M12.5x.8 four start, M9.5x.5 and a couple of other fun sizes unavailable as taps & dies or as thread pitches on the lathe) . That means they have to be machined upright in the collet chuck. However, the pen barrel alone is 80mm long & the gantry has a clearance of 100mm. That really isn't enough if the Stevenson collet is clamped in a vice, and the collet nut prevents clamping down on the shoulders of the collet. So, I need to machine in a groove about 6mm up, width about 4mm by enough depth for a clamp to get a grip, say 2mm. Then I'll be able to clamp it down after zeroing the cnc machine for the thread milling.

                                    My hope is to make this:

                                    The pen is intentionally difficult to make with a lathe – it's intended to help me learn as much as possible about cnc as quickly as possible.

                                    Regards,

                                    Richard.

                                    #133502
                                    ronan walsh
                                    Participant
                                      @ronanwalsh98054

                                      Does anyone sharpen horizontal milling cutters at home ? I have picked up a few lately, and while most were usable some could do with a grind.

                                      #133519
                                      ronan walsh
                                      Participant
                                        @ronanwalsh98054

                                        Thanks john, i'll look into that fixture. As for slitting saws , i bought a job lot at an auto jumble a couple of weeks ago, i only wanted one or two for the occassional job, but the seller wanted rid of them and gave me the lot (about 70) for 40 euro and chucked in a few horizontal milling cutters too.

                                        #133527
                                        Bazyle
                                        Participant
                                          @bazyle
                                          Posted by Alan .204 on 20/10/2013 13:56:53:

                                          …… the result was ok but I do see a difference compared to a new cutter,……

                                          Alan.

                                          You didn't specify the difference but I suspect the cutting edges are not the same depth because if you are applying any force at all the rest, being quite high, will flex. We are talking tenths here. I suggest you make sure the end stop is very positive and the reference edge in each position has the same relationship to the cutting edge in each position. This means a very good concentric cutter holder. Then you need to make sure movement is silky smooth so no force is needed.

                                          You might get some ideas off here and other articles on the Stent grinder. Since the Stent is a mini Clarkson the workholders follow a similar pattern to what was once used for actual production of new cutters not just resharpening.

                                          Edited By Bazyle on 24/10/2013 10:03:55

                                          #133601
                                          richardandtracy
                                          Participant
                                            @richardandtracy

                                            Stub Mandrel:

                                            I machined my Stevenson Hex ER32 collet holder last night. You were correct, it is hardened. I started off with an HSS parting tool, which had the edge knocked off in short order. Then I used carbide inserts for left & right shoulders to make a 6mm wide slot. The machine was working so hard that I stopped before cutting completely though the flats of the hex. The material was surprisingly ductile despite the hardness & formed big burrs on the downcut side of the hex. Finally, I used a file to clean up the 2mm deep notches I'd made in the corners of the hex, and found the cutting rate was much higher than I obtained with the lathe!

                                            Anyway, the collet holder doesn't look pretty (in fact it looks as if it has been assaulted by an incompetent maniac with a file fetish), but it can now be clamped on the bed of my CNC without a vice underneath it or any other fixture. With a collet in situ, the top of the fixture is 67mm above the bed of the machine. Perfect. My experiments on thread milling start this weekend…

                                            Regards,

                                            Richard

                                            #416831
                                            Bob Mc
                                            Participant
                                              @bobmc91481

                                              Sharpening milling cutters in my Arduino controlled screwcutting lathe…trial run.

                                              I made the Harold Hall cutter grinder which sharpens the end of the cutter quite well, however trying to sharpen the flute edges did not produce the clean edge you see on new cutters, so I decided to use the screwcutting facility of my Arduino lathe which can be programmed for virtually any thread.

                                              Pic below shows an end mill I sharpened on H.H's grinder with cutter set up in lathe ready for a trial grind of the edges, you can see that the finish is a bit rough and unsteady due probably to not feeding the cutter against the grinding wheel with a smooth linear motion in H.H's fixture.

                                              millcuttrsharp1.jpg

                                              I used a Dremel fixed to the toolpost with a small grinding wheel, the pitch of the cutter is about 80mm and this was loaded into the Arduino's Spindle and Leadscrew program with the spindle rotating at 1 rev every 8 seconds.

                                              I found that the secondary grind angle could be set up by starting the spindle rotating a little earlier relative to the Leadscrew motion startup, this was achieved by putting the grinding fixture a small distance from the initial start point of the primary grind set up so that the wheel hit the rotating cutter at a later time., ie no special measuring device needed.

                                              I intend to make a jig which uses the H.H collet holding jig in order to re-set the cutter for each flute edge, however the results of the initial grind were quite pleasing with clean sharp edges and a nice finish.

                                              millcuttrsharp2.jpg

                                              I was surprised that the small resin bonded Dremel grinding wheel produced such a nice finish, I inclined the wheel at about 45 deg to the cutter axis, I finished the ends the normal way in the H.H grinder.

                                              ..Bob -.- -.- -.-

                                              #416854
                                              Bob Mc
                                              Participant
                                                @bobmc91481

                                                Additional to my post :- Sharpening Milling cutters…

                                                Just a note of safety…

                                                The Dremel resin bonded grinding wheels are easily damaged and bits of wheel can fly off at high velocities...PLEASE WEAR EYE & FACE PROTECTION .

                                                Bob -.- -.- -.-

                                                #416859
                                                Paul White 3
                                                Participant
                                                  @paulwhite3

                                                  Hi Bob,

                                                  I would like to ask how you measure the helix of the cutters for sharpening.

                                                  I have tried all manner of devices (mechanical ) but have failed miserably . The area I am trying to address is that of

                                                  sharpening the sides of small end mills when the usual mechanical guide does not work.

                                                  your use of an electronic solution looks to the answer but the helix variation has me stumped.

                                                  thanks

                                                  paul

                                                  #416873
                                                  Bob Mc
                                                  Participant
                                                    @bobmc91481

                                                    Hi Paul…

                                                    Most cutters needing sharpening will only have part of the helix available, if they are anything like the ones I have! which were used in a machine shop and thrown out when they became worn on the edges.

                                                    In order to find what the pitch of the helix is, you can put the cutter in the lathe 4 jaw chuck and set the end of one of the cutting edges horizontal with a rule or straight piece of steel set in the toolpost holder, if you have an electronic Wixey angle gauge this is set on the chuck and zeroed, this could be magnetically fixed to one of the jaws, or you could use the jaws themselves as indicators of the spindle angle … this is always 90deg or 180deg.

                                                    The chuck is then hand rotated 1/4 of a turn or 1/2 a turn (if you have that much left on the helix) and the rule is moved along using the leadscrew handle so that it lines up with helix cutting edge, the x distance is now 1/4 or 1/2 the pitch …. for example if the distance moved to line up with edge at the new position is 20mm and you have rotated the chuck 1/4 of a turn then the helix pitch is 4×20 = 80mm.

                                                    I have only used this method on 2 flute cutters and for the grinding operation will be making a fitting something along the lines of Harold Halls grinder cutter tool holder so I can rotate the cutter for grinding the other flutes without disturbing the electronic setup which indicates where the spindle will be when the leadscrew is started up.

                                                    I don't see why this method couldn't be used on a normal screwcutting lathe if large pitches are available which would provide the same pitch as the cutter helix, the only problem might be that the spindle speed is too great, I am using a spindle speed of 1 rotation every 8 seconds which gives the grinding wheel some time on the work.

                                                    Hope that helps….Bob -.- -.- -.-

                                                    #416886
                                                    Paul White 3
                                                    Participant
                                                      @paulwhite3

                                                      Hello Bob,

                                                      Thanks for your prompt response

                                                      I have an excellent ELS but it is fitted to a lathe. My hope is to make a small simple as possible item to use on the T&C grinder. As previously mentioned I have tried mechanical systems but the prospect of a variable pitch in the region of 1-2 TPI on up to 3" is still to be found.

                                                      was your Arduino program from a library, and was it simple.

                                                      thanks

                                                      paul

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