What is this wonderful locomotive

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

This beautifully built loco has been in my late fathers workshop for maybe 50 years . Dad was a steam enthusiast and Myford main dealer and bought many bits back from families over the years. I would love to find out which engine and plan she is so maybe I can see it through. The Engineer who built this was amazing

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

A photo would help

Roy

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 25/03/2022 21:02:13

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 25/03/2022 21:02:37

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 25/03/2022 21:03:09

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

I am sorry , the photos are all to cock. Its not a very easy forum to post on! apologies but if anyone would like better photos please email me at andrew.honychurch@btinternet.com and i will send some. thanks

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 25/03/2022 21:03:43

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 25/03/2022 21:04:05

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 25/03/2022 21:04:25

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

Looks like a Great Western 4-6-0 of sorts with the inside Stephenson valve gear and the pendulum levers driving the outside valves but don't know the design off hand. The tender doesn't look Great Western though so may not be for that loco. What gauge is it – 3½" or 5" ?

John

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

Thank you for the reply John. The tender is not for that engine and should not be in the post. The engine is 5 inch I think it has been built in the 60s . Would it be scratch ? It looks too good to my untrained eye

Edited By Andrew Honychurch on 25/03/2022 22:36:49

[JAParticipant @ja]

Bump.

Because I want to hear what it is.

JA

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

It has been suggested to me elsewhere that it is Torquay Manor by Martin Evans. Before I buy the plans I wonder if someone who has them could give a copy of some of it I can check off against my engine please ?

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

No, it's not a Torquay Manor. There are too many differences in the frames etc.

I've just had a look on Station Road Steam and It looks very much like a GWR Hall that was sold some years back – Stock Code 2663 if you want to look. The position of the weighshaft and the pivot for the rocking levers that drive the valves are identical. Most GWR locos have the pivot for the rocking levers (pendulum levers) on the top of the frames but this one has them in the middle of the frames.

I'll see if there was a commercial design for the Hall in 5" Gauge.

John

PS – Just found an identical chassis on SRS – stock code 5006 – so it must have been a commercial design. It's just a case of finding which one!

Edited By John Baguley on 26/03/2022 16:00:24

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Maxitrak can supply drawings from the Greenly archive, perhaps you could buy the GA sheet for his 5" Hall and see if yours matches?

Brian G

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

Ok, think I've found it. It's a design by Henry Greenly from the 1930's.There is a short article about the loco in ME Volume 80 Issue 1987. The author isn't named but I would say that it was by Greenly himself. He designed the loco for two gentlemen for their second loco build. If you pm me with your email address I can send you a copy of the article.

The drawings should be still available from Maxitrack as they hold the Greenly archive of his drawings. There are 10 sheets in all.

You won't be able to get any missing castings anymore unless you make patterns and get them cast your self but you should be able to get by without. You have the major castings e.g. wheels and cylinders anyway.

John

Brian just beat me to it!

Edited By John Baguley on 26/03/2022 16:49:10

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

Brian and John , thank you very much indeed for your help with this. I am super pleased to put a name to the loco and will endeavour to see what drawings I can get. As suggested maybe buying just one ( GA?) would help me identify it. If either of you wish to send me an e mail address by pm I will send you better photos I have of the locomotive. Thanks again, Andrew

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Hi Andrew

I'm not sure sending me any photos would help as I know almost nothing about large scale or GWR locos. I did however find something that may be useful. Take a look at this website The Steam Workshop which shows a example of a Greenly Hall. The first photo in the fourth row seems to me to show a rocker in the same place as yours. I have snipped this from the image.

Brian G (Edited to remove rogue smiley – this forum seems to breed them)

Edited By Brian G on 26/03/2022 19:14:31

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

Thank you again Brian. Its good of you to help me with this. Now I need to consider whether I can see this engine through to build it out. I would like to and in many ways a lot of the work has already been carried out. I wonder whether the pistons will be with conventional rings or rope seal. If the former I assume it would be better to re engineer with rings?

[WearyParticipant @weary]

Hello Andrew,

The cylinders on your locomotive appear (from the colour shown on-screen) to be gunmetal. If this is the case then retain 'soft packing' or, maybe alternatively fit 'O' rings. This second option would almost certainly require new pistons.

Worth bearing in mind that there is nothing 'wrong' with graphite impregnated yarn, or PTFE, etc., as piston sealants. They provide good service. In my opinion.

 

To answer your further question posed on MECH website about completing the locomotive (& to try and keep most of the 'general info' in one place):

As John Baguley has written above you have all the most 'awkward' castings (i.e. loco wheels & cylinders) already machined and fitted.   Anything else can be fabricated or made from solid etc.  The Great Western (GW) were exponents of standard fittings so castings from other designs may well be appropriate.  Similarly a tender (and associated castings) from another GW design may be suitable.   I'm not a GW 'enthusiast' myself so cannot advise; MECH, where there are some extremely knowledgeable posters, is the place for that kind of detail information.

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 27/03/2022 16:31:03

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

Thank you Phil. Thats good to know. When you consider the cylinder and valve chest ( excuse my terminology if its incorrect I will learn!), do the various components have gaskets to seal them, or do they just fit together in perfect machine fit? Also I can see from various photos how the superheated steam enters the cylinder through the pipe in top of the valve chest, but I cannot see where the exhausted steam exits. Should there be a pipe at the rear of the cylinder feeding into the stack? I am going to have to buy myself a good book on the subject of Model Locos. thanks for all the help.

[WearyParticipant @weary]

The sealing surfaces will have gaskets to seal them, tho' during construction they may not be fitted. There are a number of suitable methods of sealing ranging from 'oiled brown paper' through PTFE sheet, to high tech liquid gasket type sealants.

The exhaust steam exits through the top of the cylinder. If you carry-out an image search for 'Hall Class Loco' (or similar) you will see the pipes running from the top of the cylinders into the smokebox.   There should be an 'inlet' on the rear face of the cylinders around valve-chest level through the frames.  I can see the hole in the frames to accommodate the pipework and connection in one of your pictures which shows the side of the loco & frames without a cylinder.

Phil

Edited By Weary on 27/03/2022 16:49:50

Edited By Weary on 27/03/2022 16:50:55

Edited By Weary on 27/03/2022 16:52:20

Edited By Weary on 27/03/2022 16:55:48

[Andrew HonychurchParticipant @andrewhonychurch36997]

thank you Phil. You have filled in some information I didnt have. I will try to find out more and certainly get the drawings from Maxitrak.

I was rather thinking that some other GWR model parts could well be made to look correct. I believe the Manor and Castle Classes are pretty similar and designed by the same Engineer. Collett I think.

I shall get myself onto MECH as you say and try to learn more. Its one of those situations where I worked with my late Father in the workshop for so many years but my interests were predominantly with vehicle restoration and I dont believe I ever asked him about the background to this wonderful loco.

I do have several other engines that he also owned so perhaps in the fullness or time I can prevail on the collective goodwill and knowledge displayed here to ask advice on those as well?

Thank you chaps. Andrew

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

The pipes from the top of the cylinder block to the smokebox on the full size Hall are steam inlet. I strongly suspect that the model is slide valves, which usually have the steam and exhaust connections from the face which bolts up to the frame, with suitable cut-outs in the frame of course. However, photos show a connection to top of steam chest, so further investigation required.

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