Using engine flush on a lathe headstock.

[Chris DentonParticipant @chrisdenton53037]

[Chris DentonParticipant @chrisdenton53037]

My oil in the headstock on my Harrison lathe is contaminated with soluble oil.

I've changed the oil once but it's still contaminated. Can I use engine flush to clean it out?

Thanks,

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

I'd be inclinded to use white spirit just as a flushing agent. A couple of flushes should do the trick. It's probably cheaper than flushing oil too.

John

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I would have thought the real challenge is to remove the water component, which the white spirit won't do. It might be worth using acetone to get the water out.

Neil

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

Chris & Neil. I agree the water component would be troublesome to say the least and that that acetone would deplete the water as it has has the natural tendency to adhere to the water molecules. (The chemistry deludes me!) It may be a case of several flushes to get the contamination out. I had a similar problem years ago with a water base contaminate mixed up in silicone oil used as a heating media. The answer there was to heat the silicon oil to about 150 deg C to boil the water out! But I don't think normal running with proper gearbox oil would get anywhere near 100 deg C to drive the water out without possible damage to oil seals and the like. Just a thought…

John

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I seem to recall from my old chemistry lessons that several small quantities of flush used in turn will extract more water than one flush with the full quantity.

Neil

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Indeed you are right Neil, repeated small flushings do a much better job.

Water is very miscible with alcohol, perhaps more so than in acetone which might be rather fierce on seals.

I would be inclined to use methylated spirit, the blue colourant goes cloudy when mixed with water which might be a useful indicator on progress.

Regards

Brian

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

How about paraffin ?

It’s what I used to clean out my L5a…..

W.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Get as much of the old crud out with a cloth, wash out with paraffin. A little bit of water in the oil will not do any harm, unless it will be stood for a long time.

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

Suck the lot out with a wet dry vacuum, I keep and use an old VAX, to clean out the coolant tank crud from the bottom of my miller, works a treat then hide it away in the back of the garden shed for later use……..

Shaun

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

Paraffin, rags and compressed air…if it’s L5 series, the headstock gear cover comes off easily enough but you will need a thin smear of sealant around it otherwise it leaks !
I also left a magnet in there to pick up any metal debris – one of these days I’ll fish it out and frighten myself. …

W.

[Chris DentonParticipant @chrisdenton53037]

The lathe stopped last night after running for a few minutes on high speed hence why I checked the oil. The headstock bearing was very right, when it cooled it went back to normal.

I will read through the replies better tonight and decide what to use.

Thanks,

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Er…. I’m pretty certain acetone and water do NOT mix. The acetone is likely to strip any paint from the machine unless it’s stove enamelled. It’s also absorbed through the skin with all the health hazards that suggests. It’s strong enough not only to clear uncured fibreglass resin from brushes but also cured resin as well. Cellulose thinners is similar but not quite as tenacious as acetone but again is likely to take any paint off. There might be some confusion with Isopropyl Alcohol which is water soluble. To be honest, any oil based solvent such as white spirit or even petrol will remove old deposits of oil but care needs to be exercised in respect of naked flames and fumes.

Edited By Chris Trice on 02/10/2014 22:59:46

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> Er…. I'm pretty certain acetone and water do NOT mix.

Er … I'm pretty certain they do, acetone is one of the few common solvents that mixes freely with water and organic solvents. I wouldn't worry about the health hazard of skin contact too much as we produce acetone in our bodies and it's most often encountered as nail varnish remover. It's probably the safest organic solvent in general use.

I do accept that it could damage cellulose or other paint finishes, but i didn't expect the inside of the headstock to be painted.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

How about neat soluble oil – it is designed to mix with water and you might be able to think of a use for it afterwards.

Meths. Which can also be added to fuel tanks in small quantities to remove the water sitting in the bottom. However most meths that has been around a while will already have picked up most of the about 8% it can absorb. (this is often blamed for poor steaming of G1 locos)

At university we used acetone and an air jet to dry test tubes. The important bit being that when evaporated it takes teh water with it. The problem nowadays would be buying it like all the good solvents, MEK and Carbon tet HSE thinks you will die if you even look at the bottle.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I get Acetone in 500ml bottles from my local Boots, no intrusive questions asked

[FrankiethepillParticipant @frankiethepill]

I wouldn't use acetone as it may do horrors to any form of non metal seal, though it will work to help remove any water. Alcohol or rather meths would be the best thing to use as it should be fairly benign as far as anything else is concerned. Flammable though!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Not sure why everyone is so terrified of acetone! HSE paranoia is a terrible condition!

This demonstration for schools encourages to use acetone by the cupful in the open, although it does recommend a g fume cupboard for allowing the acetone to evaporate afterwards (for obvious, smelly, reasons).

The HSE are more worried about its flammability than poisoning.

The oral LD50 for a rat is 5.8 g/kg, so it's about six times as poisonous as sugar by that measure (30g/kg) , but only half as poisonous as table salt (3.g/kg).

I am NOT advocating drinking the stuff, but I note that in small amounts it is used as food additive E929 in flour.

Neil

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

What would bother me most is to why and how did the headstock get contaminated in the first place? What harm has occuired to bearings inside in the meantime and of course, how to prevent it happening again?

The removal of old oil and contaminants is really something of a side issue in my opinion.

Brian

[Gary CleggParticipant @garyclegg29841]

Hi Chris

After draining use clean dry rags to take away the contaminated oil

Rotate the chuck in a low RPM for a few seconds, again removed any contaminated oil with clean dry rags

You can then add a moisture absorbent bag and leave over night

Refill with a good quality headstock oil, and away you go

Kind Regards

Gary

[Rufus RoughcutParticipant @rufusroughcut]

Hi Gents

Jizer No Prbs then rinse through with WD40, Hair dryer to dry and hey presto spotless to begin a fresh, you can dable around the jizer a bit with a paint brush to ensure allover cleaning and try polish places you can't get too or see with cloths/rags etc (all lint free I hope) for hours or just frush, rinse it, dry it, relubricate and get back to using.

Oh! and don't forget to wave a magnet around in there for the ferrous crud

the cost of damage and replacement will exceed the cost of cleaning regularly

Enjoy

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Thanks for the correction Neil. I stand corrected on the acetone question and not too big to admit it. I’m still not sure I’d use it in the headstock of a lathe because I doubt you could contain it and not spill any on surrounding paintwork. Also, as mentioned, it’s a bit brutal on many types of plastics and rubber. You can also buy aerosol cans of airbrush cleaner. That’s pretty good for degunking too.

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

My L5a headstock gearbox is painted red on the inside -so I wouldn’t use anything that might attack paint.

W.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I think I would be more inclined to open the box up and using absorbent cloth/paper remove as much fluid as possible, this would also allow the water to evaporate. I would then check why there was cutting oil ingress and correct it. There is no need to use solvents or volatiles at all as they just cause problems of their own.

Then, fill with the correct oil and run for a while, drain and then refill, job done.

Clive

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