The Beauty of Tools

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

I’ve got a life thanks. It’s not just about The Scriber. It’s the way that well made tools are objects of craftsmanship and beauty in their own right.

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Posted by Mike Poole on 02/01/2017 21:37:00:

About 30 years ago I found Facom's clé à pipe spanners in France, I have found them very useful and often the tool of choice, not seen much of them in uk.

Mike

Also about 30 years ago I found these cheap copies in a French supermarket. Very useful, and still better quality than the latest China/India imports

[Tractor manParticipant @tractorman]

I use the cranked box wrenches above and they are lovely. I have a dedicated one for the main nut on my multifix tool post.
As for getting a life Tom try not to be so negative about your forum colleagues. You don’t have to read every post or comment on them either. There are enough negative people out there without having them on the forum.
Mick

[Michael ToppingParticipant @michaeltopping17870]

I've never understood this worship of tools to me they are only of value to enable you to make something more interesting, like a locomotive or traction engine. It's probably why I find Model Engineers Workshop as interesting as watching paint dry. I can appreciate a well made quality tool if it is good to use.

Mind you I might be biased by the hundreds of tools made as a time served toolmaker.

Michael

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Some of the nicest looking tools I have seen were very old ones for woodworking, even the handles of chisels often featured multi coloured banding.

Fittings usually featured in decorative brass, the saw handles were excellently sculpted to fit the hand, and blades often had the makers name in large fancy script.

Sorry to say I really dislike doing woodwork so do not have any example photos.

Edited By V8Eng on 03/01/2017 15:45:10

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Mike Poole on 02/01/2017 21:37:00:

Ceci n'est pas un pipe.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 03/01/2017 11:44:17:
I've got a life thanks. It's not just about The Scriber. It's the way that well made tools are objects of craftsmanship and beauty in their own right.

.

No problem at all with that, Carl

What surprised me about the Facom 234.S Scriber, though, is that neither you nor anyone else [so far as I can find] has provided any detail shots to show its beauty … where are the images of the perfect knurling; the screw threads on those interchangeable tips; and the exquisite grinding of the points ?

I think perhaps they need someone of Nick_G's ability to do the promotional shots.

I don't doubt your word, but nothing I have seen generates any lust to handle one.

MichaelG.

.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/punch-sets/2550367383/

Edit: Yes, I am aware of the caveat in your second post.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/01/2017 16:38:25

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

I have had a very comprehensive set of FGacom tools for almost as long as I can remember, bought for me by my Dad in the late 60's, quite simply superb tools that have had a lot of use over the years.

My absolute 'go to' tool for any shifting work is this one, makes a Mole wrench look silly; can get in anywhere for a really good grip:

[Allan BParticipant @allanb]

Posted by V8Eng on 03/01/2017 15:44:28:

Some of the nicest looking tools I have seen were very old ones for woodworking, even the handles of chisels often featured multi coloured banding.

Fittings usually featured in decorative brass, the saw handles were excellently sculpted to fit the hand, and blades often had the makers name in large fancy script.

Sorry to say I really dislike doing woodwork so do not have any example photos.

Edited By V8Eng on 03/01/2017 15:45:10

early woodworking tools were also the joiners papers, when he went to a job, the forman would look at his tool box and tools, and if they were up to standard then he got the job, as most tools and handles were made by the joiner themselves during there time.

I have got to agree that tools can be a thing of beauty, but then again I am a self confessed tool junkie

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Posted by Mike Poole on 02/01/2017 21:37:00:

Ceci n'est pas un pipe.

Aussi, n'est pas un pissoir1

Neil – you're bored again!

rgds

Bill

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Martin – I’ve used those Facom grips and they are unbeatable.

Michael G – Unfortunately where I am I only have the camera on my phone, a Sony Xperia Z5 – so can’t take the types of shots that would best show off The Scriber.

Michael T – I take your point that tools are there to be used. You have reinforced my point by saying that they can be used to make a locomotive of traction engine. I assume you are talking about models here. A model traction engine or loco is on the face of it inherently useless. They cannot work on a farm or haul loads and passengers from John o Groats to Lands End. Yet people spend many months building them.

Why? Because the craftsmanship and care that goes into them makes them objects of beauty to be admired. They also make us aware of the work and skills that went into their full sized cousins.

It’s interesting to note too, I think, that tools are objects replete with purpose and practical value, whereas models, arguably, have almost none. You use one to make the other. Interesting.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Carl,

I know your thread is really about hand-tools, and I apologise if you think this is off-topic; but it does seem a good place to mention this: ebay item 122288779692 is a large Schaublin vertical slide.

It's a lot of money, but you can see why

So … Is this the 'definitive' design, or can anyone offer 'better' ?

MichaelG.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Hand tools Schmand tools. That is a beautiful object and it is not off topic at all.

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

"My wife, who is a nurse, is of the opinion that OCD is an essential part of the mental make up of all engineers."

Not guilty, personally, but there are serious questionnaires abroad about assessing for Asbergers/Autism. It is my belief that it is characteristic male pattern behaviour, and we are all on it somewhere. I'm not telling what my score was…

As for "c'est ne pas un pipe", Culture, yet!

Geoff

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

The question of use versus beauty is nowhere better illustrated IMHO than in the area of woodworking hand planes, probably the most collected and varied of all woodworking tools.

The later offerings by Lie Nielsen of versions of earlier Stanly planes but using modern materials and mmanufacturing methods illustrate function as well as beauty, the ones from Veritas give a different take on the same theme.

Both makers offer products of vastly superior quality than the originals at a price!

Then you can go to the likes of Carl Holtey & Bridge City Tools for planes that approach artwork and many are never used. Deep pockets are needed here.

The topic under discussion here is often clouded regarding tools like the above by financial issues and collectability as many are superb 'investments'!

A plane by Israel White recently made in the region of £20,000!

A new (ish) English maker Phil Edwards (Philly Planes) has started making hand made wooden planes to old designs with his own personal touch and he is back ordered for years now and they are not cheap.

There is something so nice about picking up a quality tool to do a job that you know will do it well, within the limits of your own skill.

I derive a great deal of pleasure from restoring and bringing old tools back from the dead and am always pleased when an end user takes the time to say how much they enjoy using them.

Martin

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

When I visit Axminster tools I often cop a feel at the Lie Neilsen display even though my occasional activities as a wood spoiler would never warrant purchasing one. There is pleasure in handling and using well made tools, the downside is that you then realise the shortcomings of lesser equipment. When I used tools for a living buying the best was worth it, Lindstrom cutters were a pleasure to use, the price is high but in my opinion worth it for a tool that earns my living. The hobby user has different priorities unless lucky enough to have a very generous hobby budget.

Mike

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Mike Poole on 04/01/2017 10:30:45:

… There is pleasure in handling and using well made tools, the downside is that you then realise the shortcomings of lesser equipment. When I used tools for a living buying the best was worth it, Lindstrom cutters were a pleasure to use, the price is high but in my opinion worth it for a tool that earns my living. …

.

Mike,

I agree about the 'downside' … but [dare I say it] Lindstrom cutters are "only" as good as a tool like that should be.

I am still using the Lindstrom box-jointed, angled cutters that were purchased 30+ years ago.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 04/01/2017 11:05:46

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

There is aquired beauty in many things, guns, cars aeroplanes, yachts and wives! Many individuals follow a theme, for instance Philately or birds. Nothing wrong there at all and OCD does not come into it at all.

Useful things aquire value as you admire them like old masters paintings so why not lovely tools or machines or accessories. At least they can be used!

Nature is beauty, except where it upsets you to watch Lions at a kill. Or mass harvesting of Whales or Fish.

Every person is an individual with their own thoughts and actions so collect on and enjoy it!

Clive

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

I agree with all of the above. I should point out though that I was not suggesting that to appreciate the beauty in tools, or indeed anything, one needs must be OCD.

What I meant was, and my wife means is that the mindset required to achieve precision and accuracy in things is not unlike OCD behaviour.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Having been to quite a few model engineer shows it is evident that the perfectionist is alive and well in our hobby as is the it'll do engineer. There is a temptation to make things to unnecessary tolerances and too high a finish but a finely finished item will draw the admiration of many but a few will say it was a waste of time and effort to take things to that level. The restoration of vehicles falls into the same trap, some will criticise things for being better than factory new. Will we be restoring our Chinese machines to a better than new condition one day?

Mike

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Nothing wrong with perfectionism. However sometimes the "fit for purpose" approach is needed as you don't have enough time to get anything done.

With regard to restoring Chinese lathes in years to come, I doubt whether many people in the early 1960s viewed Japanese motorbikes that were then coming in as potential future classics, nor do I imagine they'd have believed you if you said that such bikes were now worth as much as their British counterparts and venerated just as much.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 04/01/2017 13:32:58:

With regard to restoring Chinese lathes in years to come, I doubt whether many people in the early 1960s viewed Japanese motorbikes that were then coming in as potential future classics, nor do I imagine they'd have believed you if you said that such bikes were now worth as much as their British counterparts and venerated just as much.

 

I think you'd be right. First impressions are rarely final.

As we speak right now, I have a friend who restores bikes as a business, and he wants to do british bikes, and has done for many years but says they struggle to justify the effort now, whereas Japanese bikes are where it's at.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 04/01/2017 14:26:20

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 02/01/2017 16:18:52:

I have been clearing out a project container and I came across a Facom made scriber. It is quite possibly the greatest example of it's type I've ever cast eyes on. I've taken to calling it "The Scriber"…

I don't know what the fuss is about. It looks like a rather poor copy of the Eclipse scriber I've been using for over 40 years.

Still available but now branded Spear and Jackson: http://www.spear-and-jackson.com/product/scribers/engineers-scriber

Russell.

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 04/01/2017 15:32:13

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Like I said, the photo doesn’t do it justice. I’ve used the eclipse scribers on many occasions.

Trust me. The Scriber is far superior.

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

Check out my scriber and just see if you don't lust after this baby! My picture does not do it justice either…

Details: Tungsten tips brazed onto shafts treated with Duranickle and central digit indexing area (body/handle) in CuSn8

Mark

[Author]

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