Myfirst Myford Super 7 Mk1 Lathe – accessory identification

[Hakon HalldorssonParticipant @hakonhalldorsson78240]

[Hakon HalldorssonParticipant @hakonhalldorsson78240]

Hello. Thanks to those who helped me identify this lathe before I purchased it this weekend.
It was listed simply as an "Inch Late" here in Iceland, to ward off all the metric locals A quick search revealed what a gem this was and I'm really excited to be part of a community of owners of such vintage machinery.
I know my way around lathes, but have not had formal training. At university, getting my ME Bsc, I did a fair amount of work on lathes and mills for projects, but I have lots to learn.

I just got the lathe into the garage and have yet to design and build a stand for it as space is tight. I received a box of accessories that I have not seen online but seem to be for the lathe, and would be interested in getting some info on if anyone has any idea what they are for. It might help to know that the previous and lifetime owner of the lathe was an electrician and used it for his work (spools?). I laid out all the parts and numbered them:

I know that 3 is called a catch plate but there is no sign of a lathe dog. Also, 4 is just a saw blade, but was in the box. 5, 6,7 & 8 I have no idea what are and a piece where 9 points is missing.1 & 2 and the bits immediately below them are not original Myford, I think, but the bottom row obviously are and I'm chuffed that they look to be part of the original purchase back when the original owner brought the lathe over from England, sixty-something years ago! Here is a close up of the large unknowns:

Here is a photo of the lathe as I got it. I have yet to get to work on cleaning and re-oiling.

Thanks for the help on this, much appreciated !

Regards,
Hakon

Edited By Hakon Halldorsson on 28/08/2018 00:37:15

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I've not got one myself, but I think your "large unknowns" are most of the parts of the Myford Precision saw table.

Unfortunately the table itself seems to be missing, unless it's still in your box of bits.

See Here on Tony's web site, a great source of information on workshop machinery, also a youtube link below

Good luck and enjoy your new toy

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 28/08/2018 01:55:27

Edited By peak4 on 28/08/2018 01:58:05

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

From what can be seen from the photos, it looks like you got yourself a very nice machine. Well done! It looks too good to "restore" when you can preserve original factory paint in such good condition.

I don't think I would bother spending money to buy the missing table saw piece. It will just cover the lathe in sawdust everywhere! I think it was a relic from the days when power saws were exotic and expensive. These days every hardware store sells them for very cheap so the accessory has lost its relevance.

There are still many good books in print that are based on the Myford lathes, so might be worth buying. My favorite is LH Sparey's "The Amateur's Lathe", and also his book "A Man and His Lathe" is smaller but specifically about the Myford. And "The Myford Series 7 Manual" by Ian Bradley is also very good.

Have fun with your new vintage lathe. There is something very satisfying about getting these old machines to perform to the highest standards. Be warned though, it can be addictive.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 28/08/2018 02:22:53:

I don't think I would bother spending money to buy the missing table saw piece. It will just cover the lathe in sawdust everywhere! I think it was a relic from the days when power saws were exotic and expensive. These days every hardware store sells them for very cheap so the accessory has lost its relevance.

.

Happy to be corrected, but:

I have always assumed it was designed for use with metal-slitting saws.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/08/2018 07:15:10

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Hello Hakon,

Well found, it looks to be in decent shape.

Item 2 is I think a knurling tool and the absence of a lathe dog is not really a problem, you can always use a hose clip to hold a piece of bent strip instead. Did you get a 4 jaw chuck with it as well?

Regards

Brian

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Hi

Number 9 is a piece of electrical cable tray, originally used to support cables over voids etc, probably screwed to the workshop wall as a storage item for the saw table components.

10 is the oil gun

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Hakon, nice find I'm sure you'll have many hours of enjoyment. I think with the advent of small band saws for the DIYer, especially the 'Chinese' imports, the saw table is just about redundant, not saying aficionados don't use them but time taken to assemble it on to the lathe may lead model engineers to comment ' oh stuff this just easier & quicker to use a small bandsaw', opinions may differ of course, never the less well bought & enjoy.

George.

[Hakon HalldorssonParticipant @hakonhalldorsson78240]

Thanks for the video & link Peak4, makes sense now. One of the parts they thought belonged to the lathe was the saw table but I said it was from a saw of some sort, not lathe related, so I left it there. I'll pick it up before they toss it, although, as Hopper said, it's a relic of times when angle grinders didn't exist or required two people to operate
Item 8 doesn't seem to be used in the saw. Any idea what it could be for?

Alas, I did not get a 4 jaw chuck, the hunt begins… Maybe blasphemy, but anyone had any luck with the China chucks? I would also like to find a good faceplate.

I recognized part 2 as a knurling tool but was wondering if it was a good idea to attempt any knurling in a lathe that is this small. Perhaps I'm overestimating the force required. It's a nice tool to have though.
The cutting tools have the letters stamped on them, but the Myford site has a different code for them today it seems. I'll match them up later.

I didn't plan on going overboard in restoring, just clean, inspect, adjust & lubricate. I want to preserve the original gray paint but touch up where required.

I see a lot of the lathes with blue motors on them, possibly standard on the later models, but I wonder if this lathe has the original motor? Here is a pic although it didn't catch the markings well.

Thanks for the book suggestions Hopper and the warning, I can relate What about the manual on the Myford site for non-power crossfeed version? Is it more of a parts list than an operation manual?

Thanks all, regards
Hakon

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 28/08/2018 07:14:49:

Posted by Hopper on 28/08/2018 02:22:53:

I don't think I would bother spending money to buy the missing table saw piece. It will just cover the lathe in sawdust everywhere! I think it was a relic from the days when power saws were exotic and expensive. These days every hardware store sells them for very cheap so the accessory has lost its relevance.

.

Happy to be corrected, but:

I have always assumed it was designed for use with metal-slitting saws.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/08/2018 07:15:10

Even more useless. What were they thinking?

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Part #2 parting tool; I'm sure from your uni days you'll remember using this type, you have to remember that this type was / is used for industrial heavy duty knurling, that's not to say they are not used for model engineering, I have one myself. This type uses a lot of sideways pressure to form knurl pattern & therefore requires supporting with tailstock centre, maybe fixed steady, depending on work piece as you may well know. Most model engineers now tend to use the scissor types, I have a store bought one & one I made myself &, for me, they are easier in use having the knurls located top & bottom of the work piece, balancing each other out in a sense, so apart from the thrust toward the headstock bearings as it traverses along I reckon there's a lot less pressure required, again others may offer different opinions.

George..

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

Hakon, most probably you know this ~ some definately, maybe all, of those Myford lathe tools were designed to use a Myford "boat".

The tool + boat was so that you could instantly adjust the height of the cutting point without needing shims.
However, it will of course alter the geometry to a small degree. The tools can be used without the boat using shims as necessary. New "Myford" boats are available on Ebay:-
**LINK**

Ltd-/400517748057

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

MichaelG and Hopper – the table saw was designed to be dual purpose, for both metal and wood. Blades originally sold were a 5" for metal and a 6" for wood. Number of teeth on each were appropriate to their use (ie I can't remember what they were). Generally for fine work, but could cut thicker material if you had the patience

Hakon

This looks a well preserved lathe, and notice that although the headstock indicates an early (known as Mk 1) lathe the original countershaft has been changed for one with the later (Mk 2) type of clutch. The early clutch could be difficult as it got old, and this change is a common "upgrade", so a good positive indicator that the lathe has been well looked after. This required changing the covers and mounts as well as the countershaft. There may of course have been a bit of crossover time when the changes to specification were made by the factory so that a Mk1 bed got a Mk2 countershaft.

Those Myford cutting tools look like a set of Myford HSS "quick-set" tools, and if so you will notice that there is an arc cut out of each side on the underside, and this allows the tool to sit on a curved "bridge" so the cutting height can be adjusted by slacking off the tool clamp and tilting the tool, so no need for packing. So have a look round for the curved bridge thing.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Re. Myford 1407

I have no idea whether these prices are realisable, but here are a couple of 'as new' ones for sale: **LINK**

http://www.myford-lathes.com/accessories36.html

MichaelG.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/08/2018 13:37:35

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Myford leaflet on the quick-set tooling – helpfully shows Myford's "numbering" system

[Hakon HalldorssonParticipant @hakonhalldorsson78240]

Robbo and Fury: Thanks, the bridge or boat was in the tool post clamped with the ES tool in place when I got it. I just didn't include the boat in the photo. Clever design and I hope for most uses the original tools will do me fine as it allows quick swapping.

Robbo, yes, I think there was a crossover period as the old clutch ends with SK8128 and the Mk2 starts at SK9176. Mine is SK8780, so upgraded clutch & old headstock from factory is my guess.

Ian: It's not clear in the photo but 9 is a missing piece that is indicated in red. He had sprayed the whole plate red and then mounted everything and given it a coat of black to outline missing parts. I'm guessing it was probably a square socket key or something not originally with the saw.

George, good points and confirm my fears of hefty sideload. Might look into the other designs for my needs.

Glad to hear the overall consensus is that the lathe is in good condition I have a feeling the hardest task ahead will be to resist the urge to turn every task into a lathe project

Thanks for all the feedback, I definitely joined the right forum for this lathe!

Regards,

Hakon

[HughEParticipant @hughe]

Welcome Hakon,

I have the same lathe serial number SK8824 bought by my farther in the late 50s in East Africa. Still giving me loads of pleasure.

There was a thread on this forum regarding belts last year which will you some idea a various experiences people have had with Fenner links belts. I use the link belt for the headstock drive so I don't have to disassembly the mandrel. It is quiet. The motor belt fitted to mine is Z872 L/D10/850 Z33 1/2.

A couple of books that are well worth getting are:

The amateur's Lathe by L H Sparey

Myford Series 7 by Ian Bradley

Gearing of Lathes for screw cutting by Brian Wood. Ideal if you want cut Metric threads and don't spend loads of money on a conversion kit.

Lubrication: slideways use 68 and for bearings use 32. The lubrication nipples are for oil only don't use grease. The Myford oiler leaks but there is a better one on the market now. I am sure someone will be able to let you know the make.

One worthwhile modification is the use of a 3 phase motor and VFD. Just completed mine with some very simple mods to the motor tray (motor mounting slots needed extending a small amount) and of course you will need a motor pulley if you chose a metric motor.

PM me as I have some info in PDF format that maybe useful to you.

Hugh

[HughEParticipant @hughe]

This was the thread on the forum about belts "Myford Super 7 Mk1 Motor drive belt size plz"

[Hakon HalldorssonParticipant @hakonhalldorsson78240]

Thanks Hugh.

I got some V-belts from Optibelt. Thought about link-belts, but decided it would be good to dismantle and replace to get to know the machine a bit better.

I've been calling around for the correct oil (Nuto 32) but only find it in 5 gallon containers. Same with the VG68 way oil. Any substitute oil ideas that are more likely to come in smaller packaging out there?

I don't have 3 phase power in my garage, but I do have an VFD laying around but hadn't looked into if it can be applied to this motor.

About that Brian Wood book, sounds like there is a workaround for cutting metric without converting?

Regards,
Hakon

[Gordon Smith 1Participant @gordonsmith1]

Go to Halfords and get a bottle of ISO32 jack hydraulic oil.

Arc Euro also sell ISO 32 and 68 oils in 1 Litre bottles.

Edited By Gordon Smith 1 on 28/08/2018 17:27:47

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Hakon,

Arc also sell my book and yes, there is a workaround for metric and other non imperial threads. One easily made replacement part for the lower clamp bolt for the banjo allows the whole banjo to be lowered, mandrel gears as big as 75 T can then be fitted as the primary drivers.

Regards

Brian

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Hi Hakon, you managed to work out the riddle of the albums then!

Yes, you've got a nice little treasure there, with the better clutch and a late type gearbox. The significance of the late Mk 2 gearbox is that Brian Wood's book is written (in part) around this gearbox and his description of all the things you can do with it is extensive. I know it's an imperial lathe, but actually you can cut metric pitch threads on it just as effectively, and Brian's book covers this in detail. You do need a couple of extra gears to cut the basic metric threads, these are the 33 and 34 tooth gears referred to on this forum and also in Brian's book.

One minor anomaly concerns the style of the back gear and the tumbler gear levers. My lathe has screw knobs with a knurled edge, yours has the later style with spring loaded "pull" knobs. Here's a picture of mine – resplendent in its grubbiness!

You can also see the difference of the shape of the cover at the RHS of the QCGB; this is what identifies it as the older Mk 1 g'box which has some really basic differences though it serves the same purpose and gives the same range of ratios.

The headstock is undoubtedly the early one, the oil reservoir shows that; I'm not sure exactly when the new levers were introduced though I'd always assumed they came in new with the next design of headstock.

So thanks for the pictures, and good luck with your new toy. Enjoy!

Best rgds Simon

[HughEParticipant @hughe]

Hi Hakon,

You don't need 3 phase, your VFD should convert from single to 3 phase. But you will need a 3 phase motor. Lots of threads on the subject on this forum.

You can use hydraulic jack oil 32.

Good idea to dismantle the headstock assembly if its been standing for a while. Check the oil ways are not blocked. The front bearing oil window always leaked on mine. I had add an O rig to fix it.

Hugh

[Hakon HalldorssonParticipant @hakonhalldorsson78240]

I found a quart of H 32 hydraulic oil at a local auto parts store. For those of you who missed it, I'm not in the UK, I'm in Iceland. I wonder if there is even another Super 7 here as the man I got it from worked on a steamer and bought it in England, most likely new and brought it back here.

I did find your book though Brian, on AbeBooks online and will order it along with probably Ian Bradley's book as well, if that is the one that is most comprehensive on the Super 7 and it's operation.

Simon, I didn't go the album route. My phone backs everything up on Google Photos so I found a site that creates an open, shareable link to the picture. If you use Google Photos, here's the instructions I went by: **LINK**

I lucked out on the gearbox then, and the lathe in general.

Hugh, I'll check out the motor threads on 3 phase. Curious as to the difference it makes.

Thanks again all for the feedback, I have plenty on my plate to keep me going.

Next step is to design a stand. I'm space restricted so I'm planning to mount it on a swing arm with legs that sit in notched plates in the floor for solid and consistent placement. I'd swing it to the wall and tilt it down for storage so it doesn't protrude into the workspace too much. I'll post pics of the idea, it's difficult to explain, but would be interested in hearing of things to avoid in the design.

Regards,
Hakon

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Re your item No8.

I'm going to guess that the hook on which it hangs, should house item No.3 the catchplate, or a selection of slitting/circular saw blades.

What size is the hole in No.3, and is it as cast, or machined.

If still rough, I'm guessing it is an un-machined chuck backplate, for completing and fitting to the spindle nose.

1 1/8" 12tpi 55° (BSW) thread form.

I don't have the saw table, but I's suggest it's worth having, if you can pick it up from the vendor at minimal cost.

Bear in mind these were originally made many years ago, when milling machines and mechanical saws were far rarer in the home workshop, and all milling/precision-sawing would be completed on the lathe.

If you have neither, or they have another job on them, then I can see the saw may well prove useful.

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