How should one protect ferrous tools?

[choochoo_balooParticipant @choochoo_baloo]

As per the title, I have been trying to develop a method to long term protect ferrous hand tools and machine tool accessories e.g. lathe chucks, faceplates etc.

My worksop is a recently partitioned (with insulation and an electric heater) section of a single skin external garage. After asking Axminster Tools what's the best solution for coating ferrous surfaces, I bought a tin of their machine wax (http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-machine-wax-ax957553)

I was hoping that, after always having problems with rust prior to doing all of the above, that it will finally be kept at bay. However after picking up a waxed 3 jaw chuck there are already some surface bright rust patches 48 hours later!! Should I always wear gloves?

It baffles me since workshop videos etc on youtube always seem to have pretty shiny ferrous surfaces, and the operator is using bear hands, and I can't imagine they are constantly waxing and treating every ferrous surface.

However, other bits that I've waxed are still rust free, and therefore I can only assume that I wasn't generous enough with waxing the chuck?

But in any case please can others divulge their tactics for keeping rust at bay!

Edited By choochoo_baloo on 13/09/2016 14:11:39

[choochoo_balooParticipant @choochoo_baloo]

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Coat lightly with Camellia oil, sold by Axminster!! Excellent results and originally intended for woodworker tools.

One question remains. I am fortunate in having a neutral skin and was always allowed to handle the metrology tools, others a less fortunate and rust follows them everywhere.

Years ago I had only a wooden a shed and always left everything with an oiled (SAE30) surface, my lathe stayed rust free.

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Silicia gel packs in every tool box and every drawer

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Another possibility is Renaissance or Microcrystaline wax which was developed by the British Museum for the preservation of metal objects.

See **LINK**

Axminster also sell that under the Chestnut brand **LINK**

Jon

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

If it's not a rude question,how old are you? Some younger people do have 'rusty hands'. This effect seems to ease off as one gets older a little like acne.

Personally I would be a little wary of coating everything with that wax. It is specifically an anti friction wax for the bottom of plane irons, woodworking machine tables etc. I use it on my bandsaw table and surface plate both of which need to be oil free but slippery. Add it to a chuck (jaws) and you are asking for trouble gripping the work-piece.

I would not have thought you would be seeing a condensation issue at this time of the year (assuming you are in the northern hemisphere).

Have you just had a lot of concreting or building done because that can throw a lot of water about and I have a gut feeling it makes the air chemistry shift from a neutral pH. (That maybe just me)

I don't really use anything as anti-rust as my workshop is fairly constant re temperature and contains a lot of wood which acts as a humidity buffer.

The first thing I would suggest is good ventilation and if you have a humidity meter keep acheck on the workshop over a few days to see whats happening. Metalworking machines are usually coating in a film of oil so don't really suffer.

Arc Euro do this stuff which is actually specified as a corrosion inhibitor rather than a low friction wax.

**LINK**

I cannot say how well it works as I have not tried it but it's what I would go for if I needed to.

If you do use it perhaps you could tell us all how you got on.

regards Martin

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 13/09/2016 14:25:14:

Arc Euro do this stuff which is actually specified as a corrosion inhibitor rather than a low friction wax.

**LINK**

I cannot say how well it works as I have not tried it but it's what I would go for if I needed to.

If you do use it perhaps you could tell us all how you got on.

regards Martin

We put it in a garden spray bottle, and spray a very fine mist onto all our display machines. All machines have been touched by visitors. Non of them know that the machines have been sprayed. We clean off the dust and dirt about once every two months with a de-greaser, and re-spray with Metalguard. We have been doing this for over ten years, even when we went to shows with the machines.

For a while we stopped selling them for commercial reasons, and we just re-introduced them.

It does not work well near coastal locations… hence the poor review on another sellers site. However, this has not been made clear by the negative reviewer, and the seller has failed to point this out!.

Ketan at ARC.

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 13/09/2016 14:48:10

[ZebethyalParticipant @zebethyal]

My workshop is a pre-fab garage with only minimal insulation, and if I don't do anything, rust will start to appear on a new item in a matter of days.

For lathe/mill beds and other areas of exposed cast iron, I use Johnsons Paste Wax, as recommended on various woodworking forums, to prevent their table saws rusting.

For chucks, tooling, etc, I spray with a coating of ACF-50, as recommended by Chris Heapy in this thread.

ACF-50 will also neutralise any existing rust to prevent further spread.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Any tools left on the kitchen table never seem to get rusty…. I wonder if…. na I'd better not ask

[Philip RoweParticipant @philiprowe13116]

I know that this will stir up a hornets nest but I have always used WD40 on bare ferrous parts, I can only say that it works for me.

As Martin says younger people do seem to have rusty fingers I certainly did when I first started in model engineering 45 years ago and not being aware of any suitable alternatives I plumped for WD40 as it was cheap and plentiful. In all honesty I did in the early days of my hobby have a centrally heated workshop which may have been half the battle but for the the last 20 years my workshop has been a well insulated timber structure heated by electric convection heating, about 150w through the night and only turned up to about 1500w when I'm in residence and I do not suffer with rust problems.

As I've got older I've noticed that my rusty fingers have disappeared but I still coat any bare surfaces with WD40 to be sure.

Funnily enough I recently bought a tin of the Axminster machine wax specifically for the cast iron table of my bandsaw and I have to say I find it a most disagreeable material to use, it may well help with slide ability but then so does WD40.

Phil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I am blessed with a virtually rust-free workshop. Only things that get wet and stay wet rust here.

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Does your garage have any form of damp proofing? If it doesn't have a damp proof membrane under the floor or there's no damp course, or if the walls are porous, then it could get very moist inside. I fixed a similar problem in a garden shed by liberal application of Thompson's Sealant – floor and walls with special attention to where the wall meets the floor.

I don't have a rust problem in my garage which is part of the house and double-skinned, What helps me here is good ventilation and avoiding quick heat-cool cycles.

If you come into a damp cold workshop and put a heater on, water will be forced out of the air and condense on the nearest cold surface – like your tools. Then, as the heater warms the wet tools up, the combination of warmth and oxygen rich damp accelerates rusting.

My garage door leaks air like a sieve and – apart from lighting – I don't heat the workshop. When I start work the damp air warms up slowly and has plenty of time to escape, condensation is reduced, and a cold workshop slows down rusting.

It works for me because I live in the mild South West and dress like Nanook of the North during winter. Doing the same is a single skinned detached garage in the North might be too uncomfortable.

I developed a condensation problem in the sticky-out hall of my house after fitting double glazed windows and front door. It created an unventilated cold spot in the house where centrally heated warm air dumps moisture. There was no problem when the hall was draughty. A dehumidifier helped.

Dave

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Dehumidifier as mentioned on many previous threads.
I use beeswax furniture polish on things I am going to handle like tools and clear Waxoyle thinned with white spirit to leave only a thin layer on stock material and bits of machines that don't get oil. Beware of 'waxes' containing silicone like car and furniture wax. A regular candle will work if you can heat the object to get it to smear around for full coverage.

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

ACF- 50 Plenty of sellers on ebay and a few UK retail outlets – 15 quid for an aerosol or 30 quid for the refillable bulk pack .

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Insulation and a dehumidifier works for me, but if it is damp keep the door closed or it will try and dehumidify the world. When going away for a few weeks I spray the machine beds and ways with maintenance spray or WD40.

Chris Gunn

[charadamParticipant @charadam]

I've been using lanolin oil for a few years. It works well on the bandsaw table and the pillar drill column which are in the garage,

I mean – have you ever seen a rusty shepherd?

[choochoo_balooParticipant @choochoo_baloo]

As ever, great advise on this forum. Thanks all.

A couple have asked my age – early 20s. I have wondered whether I am more predisposed to 'rusty fingers' than others; I have always seemed to quickly rust ferrous metals and tarnish brass etc as long as I can remember. So biology must be against me!

I'm in south Somerset, so fairly mild weather most of the year. Just looked and the garage does have a membrane in the brick course, and I imagine that there's one under the concrete floor?

So to summarise I plan to do the following:

• Spray 'working surfaces' including tooling with ACF 50. Do I need the aerosol or is it more economical to buy the bottle and use a garden sprayer?
• Install a dehumidifier – can anyone recommend a model for a workshop about 12.5 m^3?

Just found a tin of Thompson's sealant on the garage will upload a photo of the tin – hopefully someone can advise whether it's suitable for painting on the interior of the wall.

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

The bulk pack (1 quart) of ACF-50 is the cheapest because you are not buying propellant gas etc. It usually comes with a dispenser but realistically you only need a blob on the end of a finger to cover about half a square foot of clean metal.

While it needs replenishing outdoors on a bike or car etc, when used Indoors it effectively lasts 'forever'

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by choochoo_baloo on 13/09/2016 20:37:39:

…

Just looked and the garage does have a membrane in the brick course, and I imagine that there's one under the concrete floor?

…

It might, but not necessarily.

This link discusses converting a garage into a living space. It's OTT advice for a workshop but there's good stuff about tackling damp in it.

The Thompson's you have is almost certainly the right stuff. Apply it to the outside of the walls first to stop rain soaking in. You may need 3 or 4 coats – brick can really soak it up.

Cheers,

Dave

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by Martin 100 on 13/09/2016 21:33:09:

The bulk pack (1 quart) of ACF-50 is the cheapest because you are not buying propellant gas etc. It usually comes with a dispenser but realistically you only need a blob on the end of a finger to cover about half a square foot of clean metal.

While it needs replenishing outdoors on a bike or car etc, when used Indoors it effectively lasts 'forever'

Similar to the stuff I use on the motorbikes; Motorex Moto Protect (formerly Motorex 645).

Even works on chrome exhausts

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Try living out here!

Anything, and i mean anything that i touch in the workshop, when finished with, gets a wipe down with an oily industrial kitchen roll sheet, kept always to hand. I'm talking machine tools, beds, chucks, hand tools, Allen keys etc etc. Oil used is either slideway oil or hydraulic 68 (same difference). And it works.

Miss the above, just once, and the following day whatever i have touched is rusting nicely.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

WD40 works for me. We get about 8 feet of rain a year here and it's always humid.

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Shooting enthusiasts used to swear by Rangoon Oil as an anti-rust agent, and I believe it was used by the British Army in tropical climes around 150 years ago. I see it is still available, but some examples are labelled "improved formula". Problem is, I dont know what the original formula was. Does anybody? All I can find out is that it was a "clingy" sort of oil with an extremely low evaporation rate. If it was effective on steel in tropical jungles in the sweaty hands of soldiers, it must have been good stuff!

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

This was 'done to death' years ago in ME with trials of every different product.

The winner by 'miles' was Three-in One oil.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

"If you come into a damp cold workshop and put a heater on, water will be forced out of the air and condense on the nearest cold surface"

. . . . . .really !!

What really happens is that the warming air is able to take up more moisture so no condensation takes place on the heating part of the cycle. Condensation takes place when the temperature falls and the air is less able to hold all the moisture you just breathed into it. In the winter it's good to vent the warm moist air out of the workshop when you have finished. The replacing cold air from outside will contain less water and you get less condensation when the tools cool down. Essentially you have to stay the right side of the dew point.

regards Martin

[Author]

Posts