Honey pump

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Some of you may have noticed I have another hobby, Bee Keeping.

After spinning out the combs in the centrifuge I bottle the honey in 1lb jars for sale.

The liquid honey is quite viscos (spelling) and can vary in viscosity from thin to fairly thick.

Some years back I obtained a plastic plunger type pump like those on a plastic gallon container for sauces and condiments.

This was not man enough for the job and soon gave up and I have been searching for a long time to find another suitable pump.

I feel now I have to make one.

A 1lb jar is 300ml in volume and I would like to fill in one stroke if possible.

The description I would like to follow is a stainless steel tube that can be attached easily to the side of the plastic honey bucket which at the most is 12″ deep.

A valve at the base which will open on the up stroke and close on the down stroke, with a spring inside the tube to assist.

The plunger will have a valve on the end that will close on the up stroke and carry the honey up to a spout for filling.

I hope that is enough detail for you to envisage the type of thing I want to make.

Any ideas and suggestions gratefuly received including the supply of thin wall ‘seamless’ stainless tube. of about 25mm dia. The rest I can supply except the spring.

I am not interested in a powered version as it can affect the way the sugars in the honey crystalize.

 

Clive

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Hand operated plunger type pump.

[Michael Cox 1Participant @michaelcox1]

Hi Clive,

 

Have you considered an oil pump such as this one:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cop2-self-priming-lever-oil-pump?da=1&TC=SRC-oil pump

This is made for dispensing oil from a large drum. It has a stroke of 300 ml. It is chrome on steel construction so it would probably be easy to keep hygenic. The only things that might require changing would be the valves and seals in order to make it food friendly.

Mike

 

 

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

Clive,

Remember the density of honey varies so a squirt will not fill your Jars accurately.

Mother kept bees; she and the lady next door had some 8 hives some of which she rented out to farmers with bean fields. The old man made my mother a ‘Filling Bucket’. This had the wax strainer in the top and it sat below the spout of the centrifuge which I as a boy had to climb onto the kitchen table to turn. The filling bucket was made from a stainless milking bucket it has a rotary closure, spring loaded valve in its base. The honey jar was placed onto a pan of a steel yard which had a slider to ‘tare’ off the weight of the jar. You opened the valve on the Bucket which was held open by a ‘sear’ as the steel yard dropped tripped the sear the valve snapped shut and the jar was filled. It would hold to +- ¼ Ounce.

You could rig something up with a modern electronic scale using a solenoid to trip the sear.

Regards

Dick

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The pump on a 3 or 5L garden spray pump looks quite robust. Ian S C

[Lawrie Alush-JaggsParticipant @lawriealush-jaggs50843]

Hi Clive

 

Have a look at this, it may be of value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Follower_plate_pump

 

Ian, I think that you will find honey to viscous for a garden spay.

 

Lawrie

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

All interesting so far but remember I am not in the honey business and am just a Philanthropic bee keeper so my through put of honey is only in the thirty to fourty lb at a time and the honey buckets only hold 15lb or 30lb.

So I am looking for this seamless thinwall stainless tube at 25 od and an idea of how to make the valves.

Honey under pressure and a leak and its disaster, even an overflowing honey bucket is too as its soundless and you dont know untill you turn around and see it!

More ideas please!

 

Clive

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Had a bit of a look on google,and amoung the honey equipment found a hand opperated sludge pump (sewerage) designed to pump out sewerage from holding tanks on boats, and camper vans. The trailer with the tank is called a honey wagon. If you could get a look at one of these you may be able to scale it down a little. Ian S C

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Hullo Clive,

Just a thought, there is what is known as `Catering Grade` of Stainless also known I think as `316` Grade. Maybe a good idea to stick to this. I think same principle applies to plastics but am unable to offer any help on that.

Regards,

John.

PS luvly stuff! Use it as a cold medicine – any ol` excuse will do!

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Trouble with plastic gizmos is that they are OK to start with and then they fatigue and fall to pieces. I have tried Lakeland Plastics and the buyer says he will look in the trade for something but as yet no answer from him.

I think it is coming dow to making my own design until I get it right, a winter job that I cannot try until the summer harvest!

 

Clive

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi Clive

Assuming you have an air supply? I would scout around for a couple of Aluminum or brass air cylinders, an electric solenoid valve, two micro switches and a DPDT relay you can set up as a latch to reverse the direction. It would also need a valve to turn on the air ideally that exhausted the pressure on the pump when it was off. (If you can get a pilot (Air) operated reversing valve no electrics are needed)

The cylinders can be set “rod to rod” in a simple frame; O ring type piston seals would be Ideal. For valving what about glass marbles or stainless steel bearing balls and thick O rings in custom turned housings. with light springs. I guess the bore should be rather large and you may need to drill out the cylinder port holes.

For cleaning the honey side cylinder could be assembled with wing nutted screws so it could be disassembled for cleaning.

I guess if you do not want to automate just attach a hand lever, The cylinders themselves are not that hard to make although not worth the effort if you can find them second hand.

Cheers
John

Edited By John McNamara on 27/09/2011 15:15:41

Edited By John McNamara on 27/09/2011 15:16:51

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

The tube used for making hydraulic cylinders is seamless and I’m sure you can get it in stainless. I have used it with no finishing (of the bore) to make a pneumatic cylinder. A quick google search for – Hydraulic tube found this- http://www.steelexpress.co.uk/non-ferrous/stainless-steel-tube.html . I’m sure there will be others.

Good luck.

Dave

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

More thought:- I ‘ve never worked with honey, tho’ I love the proper stuff. I used to work in the paint industry for a while, paint has similar viscosity range to honey. We used s/s cyls. with air plungers to fill cans by weight. Might be worth a bit of research on the google. This stuff comes up 2nd hand often (or did).

[Billy MillsParticipant @billymills]

How about a Peristaltic Pump? good for blood or slurries, no valves, very simple to make, self priming and very easy to keep sterile. A length of Silicone tubing and a couple of rollers does the job. Have a look on Wikipedia for their little animation.

Must fly!

Billy Buzzzzing off.

 

PS Peristaltic pumps are widely used for metering so you could easily arrange to fill a jar with a known number of turns of the rotor.

 

BM 

Edited By Billy Mills on 27/09/2011 18:43:18

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

Hi, Clive,

 

Is it essential to use a rigid tube in the bucket? – it might be easier (?) to design it along the lines of a hand water pump. I am thinking of a pump unit at the top c clipped to the bucket, containing the plunger and valves, and a (replaceable) plastic tube into the bucket. It probably wouldn’t give you a ‘single-stroke’ fill, but may be worth a thought as it may be possible to avoid a long(ish) seamless SS tube.

 

Almost everyone in our village in Romania keeps bees and sells the resulting honey – I am no expert, but they all seem to use a simple hand-driven centrifuge system to separate the honey from the frames/comb. This is simply then drained into a container, then (as far as I can see) is simply poured into glass jars for sale. I’ll wander along and talk to my neighbour and see if I can get any more info when I get chance.

 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Looking at some Honey sites, some of the bee keepers there don’t use pumps even with 50 gal drums weighing up to 650lb, they fit the drum on a cradle, and fit a spout in the scew bung with a tap/ honey gate on that. Part of the cradle consists of a sack barrow foer ease of handling. Much easier for cleaning etc. Ian S C

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Jeepers! 50 gallon drums, I would’nt be able to fill one of those in five years.

As I work in the kitchen, cleanliness is very important and the less I handle the honey the better.

There is a time element in all this as it takes ages for the honey to go through the filter.

Then I leave the honey in the tubs for about 3 days and then bottle it.

This is the bit where I need a better way of dispensing the honey into the jars and the idea is to use a one or two stroke pump that will sit in the tub and put the honey into the jar and there is less handling of honey and jar.

The outline is a s/steel tube with a spring to assist the plunger and the valves to open and close as required when pushed up and down.

I have visualized what I want and now will try and source the materiels.

 

Clive

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

Clive Over here in Hungary it is common in the Boondocks to have stainless steel water pumps for drinking water. I will have a look at the ‘Gazda bolt’ (the sort of farm shop) and see what they have. I also remember that in the U.K. both caravans and boats used metal water pumps to lift water from the tanks into the sinks. Have a look around Boat Chandlers and Caravan suppliers and you might find what you want

Rdgs

Dick

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Hi Richard, I have been scouring the internet for all these things and the prices are frightening. There are some condiment dispencers in the US at about $240 each but only deliver 1oz a shot.

I will look in at the ships chandler tomorrow on the way home at dinnertime. I know they have plastic pumps.

UK wise the condiment pumps are £32 in plastic and again only deliver a small amount on each press.

I will end up designing my own and at the moment can get all I want except a stainless spring. Still looking at that but getting a one off is difficult.

Thinking now I might make a mod. to a honey bucket just for pouring with a cut off tap.

If I place it in the base and stand it on a riser it will be easy and far cheaper than a plunger type pump.

Early days yet and I have all winter to work it out and make.

 

Clive

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Clive,

I’m just making a manual water pump (Stuart Models casting). All it is is two stainless balls in a tube, lift the lever water is drawn in at the bottom, push the lever down and it squirts out of the top. No springs, so should be easy to clean, but it would have to be scaled up a fair bit to get a 300mL jar full at one “suck”!

 

Can post the drawing if interested.

 

Steve

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Hi Steve, all ideas are needed at the moment, its what ever is functional and easy to clean and operate.

It will in the end be something quite simple that will spring to mind, probably when I am asleep.

I think I am coming round to a stainless steel tap fitted into one honey tub for all operations.

I have seen one where there is a lever and you press and the liquid flows, simple and easy.

 

Clive

[Lawrie Alush-JaggsParticipant @lawriealush-jaggs50843]

Hi Clive

 

I was thinking about your problem again and remembered that as a kid I used to spend time on a friends farm in north central Victoria. They lept bees, sfficient hives to produce about 100 KG of honey. They had invested in the centrifuge and a hot water knife and were thinking about a pump but decided against it for several reasons.

 

1 was the cost of the pump.

2 was the that fact that it was yet another item to clean

3 and maybe most importantly was the amount of honey wasted by virtue of being left in the pump.

 

They settled for a bucket with a rotary knife blade gate on it which cuts off the flow with very liitle dribble.

 

Not a very good drawing but you’ll get the idea.

 

You can have the excitememt of building it. There is no problem with crystalisation over what you would normaly have due to particulate matter as there is no change in presure and the temperature is up to you.

Most importantly and I say this as someone who has washed a huge amount of kitchen equipment, the lean up for this device only takes one or two minutes.

Lawrie

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

Lawrie

That is what we used in the 50s. Two things the bottom edge of both the knife and the back plate were bevelled to reduce thickness and give the Honey less to stick to and reduce the drip size. Under the head of the retaining nut (A wing nut) there was a fairly substantial spring. The thread used was of course was ‘O’ BA. (so if you lost it you could not go to the local Iron Monger and just buy a new one. Until Dad ‘Blew the Gaff’ and told old ‘’Tinny Clarke’ what it was.

The whole thing was made out of stainless steel and I think had been ‘liberated’ as it had the letters ‘DR’, a swastika and an eagle on it.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I think that I am going to make a similar device to the gate valve, but plunger operated.

A body to fix into the base of the honey bucket and then a a plunger with a bore of about 0.5″ that will be operated by a hinged lever on top.

The plunger will have a spring under it to lift it shut as pressure is taken off the handle.

I will incorporate a fixed bar that I can use as a hold when squeezing down on the lever.

I will incorporate ‘O’ rings as necessary.

I will make a drawing and see if I can attach it here later.

I have come to the conclusion it will be too difficult to make a one stroke manual pump as it will be almost unmanageable to apply the necessary pressure and control it.

Let gravity do the work I think.

 

Clive

Edited By Clive Hartland on 03/10/2011 08:14:01

[Author]

Posts