E10 Petrol

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Surprised no-one's mentioned it yet! UK Standard Petrol is switching from E5 to E10 petrol, ie 10% ethanol.

At this rate petrol will be soon worth drinking. Naturally Esso will sell a fine vintage, with overtones of fruit, whilst Tesco petrol will be disappointingly round-shouldered with a hint of creosote…

Mmmm

Dave

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Just watch all your fuel hoses disintegrate – E5 was bad enough!

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

No one remember Cleveland Discol? If Harry Ricardo reckoned it was OK that will do for me

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Numerous people predicted doom when I started running a diesel car on old cooking oil ! 20 years later and 100s of 1000s of miles later I am still waiting. Got through a few fuel filters, been "dipped" and still going strong ! For those who are interested 90%waste cooking oil and 10% petrol, warmed and filtered through a nylon coffee filter. ONLY TO BE USED IN OLDER NON COMMON RAIL / NON ELECTRONIC ENGINES ! Noel.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

So will this new E10 petrol 'go off' even quicker than E5?

Tony

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by duncan webster on 21/07/2021 12:20:06:

No one remember Cleveland Discol? If Harry Ricardo reckoned it was OK that will do for me

I do, go faster stuff my father said.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I did some fairly rigorous fuel consumption tests when E5 came in. My findings, for what they are worth, were a decrease of just under 5% in mpg. I wonder if E10 will give me a 10% decrease in mpg? I will never know as I have converted to diesel power.

Andrew.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

 

Edited By V8Eng on 21/07/2021 12:42:07

Edited By V8Eng on 21/07/2021 12:42:20

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Explain ?

How is it , that the ethanol is 'soluble ' in the petrol but will separate into the water , leaving the petrol 'behind ' , if water is added to the petrol/ethanol mixture ?

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

We've had E10 95 Octane in Australia for many years now, been using it regularly in my 2003 Subaru Forester, done about 120,000km since I started using it. None of my fuel hoses or other fuel system components have shown any signs of deterioration, and neither has the catalytic convertor or exhaust system. Fuel consumption and general performance on E10 is almost identical to straight 91 Octane unleaded. Only difference is the smell of the exhaust. Only reason I use 91 Octane unleaded is if E10 is unavailable, which is common in country areas. Changing fuel types on a part-full tank resulting in running a mix of E10 and regular unleaded does not seem to make any difference.

If kept stored in a vented container the ethanol will evaporate slightly faster than the petrol so the ratio of ethanol will change over time but it does not 'go off' any faster than regular unleaded.

I used E10 regularly in my 1973 VW Kombi before I sold it, and in my wife's 1975 Ford Laser and her replacement Toyota Yaris with no problems. I've also used it occasionally in the mower and line trimmer with no apparent ill-effects.

Seems like there may be a few furphys out there in relation to ethanol blend fuels.

[Mike CrossfieldParticipant @mikecrossfield92481]

Yet another change quietly slipped in by the government in the name of emission reductions without proper consideration.

E5 and the soon-to-be introduced E10 are gifts to the fuel companies. Alcohol is cheaper than petrol, so they make more profit/gallon. Anyone seen any suggestion of petrol companies passing any of this on to the customer – no, I thought not. Alcohol is also less calorific than petrol, so E10 gives fewer mpg, leading to more sales for the petrol companies. Win/win.

Alcohol attacks certain plastics and rubbers, so if your vehicle is more than a few years old, and wasn’t designed in anticipation of alcohol in fuel, there is a real risk of damage to fuel system components. This can be expensive and difficult to rectify. If your motorcycle has a plastic tank, watch out, it may slowly dissolve.

Alcohol also readily absorbs water, so if you use your vehicle infrequently there is risk of corrosion attacking the tank and any internal fuel pump. There are also chemical reactions which can occur creating acids which lead to bacteriological black slime creation in the tank. I’ve had personal experience of this with E5 in a classic mini, and E10 will be worse. Adding a fuel stabiliser goes some way to reducing the problem, but there is a non-trivial cost involved.

And there will surely be ecological issues involved in producing the vast amounts of cheap alcohol required.

Since petrol engines vehicles will be phased out in the next few years, wouldn’t it have made sense to leave things are they were for the interim, or at least make alcohol-free fuel available for those who need it for their old vehicles?

Mike

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

Mike, the field behind my house is used to produce crops for either silage or bio-ethanol, I don't know which since I have not asked the farmer but the latter I think. This field is cropped twice a year because they plant fast growing cereals or maize and don't need to wait for the crop to be fully ripened. The harvester is more like an industrial lawnmower than a harvester. It cuts the crop, feeds it into the machine and internally just chops it finer. The whole crop, chopped up grain, stem, stalk, leaf, whatever is fired into the trailer going alongside. No effort is made to thresh the grains out. There are a large number of digesters in the area that also take things like waste from chicken rearing and egg production.

For a long time now the MOT has had a requirement to test that the petrol filler cap is air-tight. There should be a clear sound of escaping gasses when it is loosened. My daughter has had to go back to the testing centre with the key to the petrol cap a few years back as she had left the car key but not the fuel cap key and they couldn't complete the test without it.

Martin C

[VicParticipant @vic]

Running cars on Ethanol is nothing new.

**LINK**

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

There is a UK Gov site that advises on the suitability of E10 in your car. I've just checked mine and the site advises that E 10 is suitable for all Dacia petrol engines. I no longer own an Austin Seven so that's one less thing to worry about and I'm hopng that by the time my Dacia is in need of replacing then the battery technology and associated infrastucture will have been improved.

Brian

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Brian H,

Don't worry about your Dacia (whichever model it is) – I have had all three models of the Duster, and a Logan, and currently running the latest Duster, and all ran on E10, which is standard here – never even knew it was any different until this forum started the panic.

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Forgot to add – there are two stickers inside the petrol filler cap – one says E5 and the other says E10.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Forcing owners of non-compatible vehicles to use the "super" versions of fuel, which I believe will still be E5 and about 12p more per litre?

Rob

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

The compatibility-finder and other information on E10 fuel is on the http://www.gov.uk site.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Does anyone know how to get the water out of alcohol-containing petrol?

I assume it's the water content that causes corrosion(?) deposits to block the carb. jets on my emergency generator. It's used infrequently, but requires a carb. strip-down each time it's needed. It's only been a problem for the last few years. I don't know what's in the petrol these days, here in NZ. It used to be filthy stuff… NZ is closing its only refinery, so we'll presumably import the cheapest cast-off junk no-one else wants. Perhaps that will be better…

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

When I flew light aircraft it was mandatory to check fuel drains for water pre-flight in case of condensation in the wing tanks or the club bowser and to top of the tanks after the last flight to reduce said condensation.
If your genny usage is occasional then consider Aspen fuel +/- checking, replacing or adding fuel filters and drains. I have no need to do so here with petrol kit but diesel kit gets refuelled via a filtered funnel.
My petrol genny hardly gets used in anger but I run it up every month to also top up it's deep cycle battery.
The ultimate (but expensive) alternative is a home battery backup – more economical if you have solar panels to use own power at night.

pgk

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by Kiwi Bloke on 22/07/2021 02:35:50:

Does anyone know how to get the water out of alcohol-containing petrol?

I assume it's the water content that causes corrosion(?) deposits to block the carb. jets on my emergency generator. It's used infrequently, but requires a carb. strip-down each time it's needed. It's only been a problem for the last few years. I don't know what's in the petrol these days, here in NZ. It used to be filthy stuff… NZ is closing its only refinery, so we'll presumably import the cheapest cast-off junk no-one else wants. Perhaps that will be better…

Concentrated Sulphuric Acid. I seem to remember from my A Level chemistry that it is used to remove the last 4% of water when preparing pure ethanol (after distillation).

I spent three weeks in New Zealand 21 years ago and the petrol was absolutely filthy. They boasted that they were one of the first countries to ditch leaded fuel. It contained an aweful lot of aramatics, probably benzene, which coaked up sparking plugs, turned motorcycle exhaust pipes blue etc.

JA

[RMAParticipant @rma]

The switch, or rather evolution to adding ethanol to fuel has been going on a long time and the increase to 10% was announced last year. (no doubt this will increase until, together with price increases, will force IC cars off the road. Classic car clubs and a few politicians have been campaigning to keep some ethanol free petrol available, and the government has given that assurance.

It is available around the UK but you have to research where to find it. I use Esso Supreme 99 for my classic, and there's only one pump available in my town. This isn't helped by the government insisting that ALL pumps should carry the 5 or 10% sticker on them, and forecourt staff haven't a clue what they sell. I went direct to Esso to get a UK map of availability, but this will change over time I guess.

 

 

Edited By JasonB on 22/07/2021 10:00:41

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