Drill press vice

[GaunlessParticipant @gaunless]

Hi all.

I'm after a drill vice for my Clarke CDP5EB bench drill press.

I know Machine Mart sell a 3" item for £23.98, but is it worth spending a bit more for something a little nicer?

I'm looking to make the holes in the frames and buffer/drag beams etc. of my LBSC 'Rainhill'

Cheers

G.

[GaunlessParticipant @gaunless]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The old ‘Nippy’ and its J&S equivalent were good

… not sure if there is a decent modern equivalent.

MichaelG.

.

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=139687

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 09/05/2020 17:16:40

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Gaunless

In simple terms it's what you want to pay for it. what needs to be checked on any drill vice is for jaw lift, lead screw slop, flat base i.e. jaw lift is where the loose jaw tending to lift up as you tighten it, by doing so it will put your item out of vertical & drill holes off square ( damhik ) I got a 4" vice from M/Mart & I had to replace the keep plate from under the moving jaw, it was, loosely what I would describe as a piece of 3mm sh** plate.

I replaced it with a piece of 6mm BDMS.I also checked the flatness of the base to the jaw horizontal plane, it wasn't level, I ended up having to machine the base parallel to the jaws after ensuring the jaws were sitting parallel in their seating, as it was only touching on 3 corners.I finished up machining off approx 1 mm to get it to sit reasonably flat. I also made up a set of aluminium jaws machined to run parallel with the base & put a small 3 x 3 mm recess in the top for holding small items. as for the lead screw; I still need to rotate it near enough 2 turns to pick up the casting thread, you gets what you pays for.

I have a decent vice on my mill backed up with a small 34 mm machine vice from Arc Euro which is very nice…

**LINK**

I aim to get a larger 70 mm type 2 for my mill.. eventually.. . No doubt other members will offer their comments, good hunting.

George.

p.s. usual disclaimer applies.

Edited By mechman48 on 09/05/2020 17:16:50

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You may find a better or cheaper vice at other suppliers. Look at Arc Euro, Warco, Chester, Chronos etc.

Plus, if there were a problem, you would probably get better back up from Model Engineering suppliers.

Howard

[GaunlessParticipant @gaunless]

Thanks chaps.

The drill press itself is as cheap as chips as you're probably well aware, but my way of thinking was that if I got a decent vice then the vice can still be useful to me when I get a better quality drill press. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the Clarke drill press for the price, it's 'a start' and better than my only other hole drilling method, which is a Millers Falls hand brace.

The drill press will be relegated eventually to my 'indoor' hobby room, (a spare room) where I build free flight model aircraft, drilling engine bearers and suchlike, but for now it's out in the garage in the 'dirty' workshop, and I need it to earn it's keep doing some drilling on live steam loco parts for my little 'Rainhill.'

We shall see how it does. I don't think the tiny holes that are called for on the plans for the 'Rainhill' will work it too hard.

I don't have the tools or experience to modify new equipment like you experienced chaps. I have a mini lathe, but I'm still a tyro with such things. I need to join a club really.

G.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Rotagrip still sell the Nippy / J&S style vice mentioned in the previous thread referenced o by Micheal **LINK** . About twice the price of the Machine Mart offering but Rotagrip are a more professionally orientated supplier than Machine Mart. The grooved jaws can be very useful for holding smaller items but 50 mm opening is a little stingy. I think the Nippy is getting towards 3" opening.

My Nippy has been resting in the cupboard for nearly 2 decades now as I have an X-Y slide based vice on my drill which, so far, has coped with everything. I got a set of prismatic jaws for it which are functionally similar to those on the Nippy and prove their worth about every third job.

Clive

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

I don't know what you were looking at in machine mart, I have something similar to this and it's reasonably good

**LINK**

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Pete. on 09/05/2020 18:34:08:

I don't know what you were looking at in machine mart, I have something similar to this and it's reasonably good

**LINK**

Me too.

[GaunlessParticipant @gaunless]

Ah yes. Just been browsing and saw that.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

The RDG vice that Dave and Pete like is essentially the same as the one I linked to from Rotagrip except for the grooved jaws being on the fixed jaw rather than on the moving one. Nippy has both sets grooved. Which way is best in practice I know not.

RDG version opens an inch further too which is usefully better and its around £13 cheaper. But the surfaces the moving jaw run or are considerably narrower and the gap between wider. Usually means the moving jaw isn't so well guided and restrained with potential jaw lift issues as mentioned by George.

About where you need to see both together to directly compare quality and performance. Looking at the picture the general proportions of the RDG offering are those that you'd normally associate with vices whose as delivered performance is, at best, OK (ish) but will respond well to a bit of heavy fettling / light modification. Excellent value for those able to do the relatively simple work but, perhaps, a little disappointing for those wishing to use it straight out of the box.

The sort of thing that gets the job done well enough if used with care but pretty much every time you use it you think "I wish it were a bit better!". The latter sentiment being pretty much an inevitable part of getting started when everything has to be squeezed into the budget you have right now. When starting out you have to accept that some of the things you buy are "for now" items that will need to be replaced or re-worked later.

I suspect the first magazine article about re-working an inexpensive imported vice to give the much more engineering level of performance associated with things 3 (or more) times the price appeared about 3 months after such vices hit the shops. Most of the delay being magazine publishers lead time.

Clive

[GaunlessParticipant @gaunless]

You're quite correct Clive. Both my lathe and my drill press are very much 'It will do for now' machines. But then again, great things have been done with much less, (by admittedly more skilled people). I think they are both fine for making a start. Both can be sold on in time, and the lathe although Chinese will still recoup quite a bit of it's value it seems.

I will 'pull the trigger' on a vice soon, but at least I'm now making a more informed decision.

Thanks chaps.

G.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I know Machine Mart sell a 3" item for £23.98, but is it worth spending a bit more for something a little nicer?-

I have to add that I find machinemart cheap and cheerful in respect of machinery. I bought my first lathe from them. With what I now know (in hindsight, of course) I wish I had never bought a ‘precision’ anything from there.

So, yes, it is worth spending a bit more, IMO. My wife always says “It’s your meannesses that you regret, not your extravagances”. She is sometimes right and this is one time when she is!

Edited By not done it yet on 09/05/2020 21:50:09

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

I bought a small second hand one that I think was homemade. Very precise, but only about 1 1/2 " jaw. But this is fine for the work I do.

[GaunlessParticipant @gaunless]

Chinese mart more like. I think it's fine as long as your expectations are fairly low. 'Does the job' for now.

I'm drilling reasonably accurate holes, which I wasn't before, so I can't argue. Like I say, it only has to do so much and then it will be relegated to my balsa shaving manufacturing plant….

[Gordon TarlingParticipant @gordontarling37126]

I've had one of these – **LINK** for many years now and I really have never wished for an upgrade at all. It's very well made and suits my modest purposes very well.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I agree with Gordon, I too have had an RS supplied drill vice for many years and it is first class. I also have one of the cheap Chinese offerings, similar to the RDG vice. It wasn't too smart to begin with, but responded very well to the usual fettling.

The choice as always, is up to the OP.

Andrew.

Edited By Andrew Tinsley on 10/05/2020 10:04:10

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

A genuine Nippy is a very good vice with 2 inch capacity,and vees in boyh jaws ,mine was new in 1968,and still used frequently ,I chose a Nippy as there was one in constant use where I had worked and never heard a moan about it.A drill vice should have a slot in centre of the base to allow drills to run through where as a true milling vice has a flat bed with no clearance for a drill ,though lots of second hand milling vices have lots of drill marks due to careless operators. The drill vice must have a moving jaw which does not lift ,but something that can be overlooked is a check on the fixed jaw ,essentially is the jaw face truly vertical ,and on imported drills a check to see if the drill spindle square to the table is recomended.Nippy vices can be found at auto jumbles etc. If I have to use a good milling vice for drilling, Place a flat piece of steel under the work so if the drill does break through it hits the bit of steel,on larger vices the work can be placed on parallels well clear of the machined vice surface.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

The 3" cheap as chips machine vice from Machine Mart is only about a tenner. And having been hard up and not able to afford more when I bought mine I feel it is worth nearly that much!

It is a cheap bit of kit and while it would be wrong to say it doesn't work – it is not ideal.

It may sound daft suggesting you spend nearly as much on a machine vice as on your drill press, but it could be an investment for the future – plus you don't want work flying out and damaging itself or you.

I can't personally recommend a different vice as I still have the cheap and nasty one, but I have used several 'Nippy' vices and clones and they do seem to be far better.

What is useful is one of the things like half a mole wrench that can clamp a flat object down to the drill table. Machine Mart call them table vices. Recommended.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 09/05/2020 17:14:44:

The old ‘Nippy’ and its J&S equivalent were good

… not sure if there is a decent modern equivalent.

MichaelG.

.

**LINK**

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 09/05/2020 17:16:40

This reminds me that I seem not to have reported the result of my modification to the rather basic M12 screw on my J&S UNIGRIP vice as discussed in the linked thread; I will now do so.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Clive Foster on 09/05/2020 20:15:10:

The RDG vice that Dave and Pete like is essentially the same as the one I linked to from Rotagrip except for the grooved jaws being on the fixed jaw rather than on the moving one. Nippy has both sets grooved. Which way is best in practice I know not.

RDG version opens an inch further too which is usefully better and its around £13 cheaper. But the surfaces the moving jaw run or are considerably narrower and the gap between wider. Usually means the moving jaw isn't so well guided and restrained with potential jaw lift issues as mentioned by George.

About where you need to see both together to directly compare quality and performance. Looking at the picture the general proportions of the RDG offering are those that you'd normally associate with vices whose as delivered performance is, at best, OK (ish) but will respond well to a bit of heavy fettling / light modification. Excellent value for those able to do the relatively simple work but, perhaps, a little disappointing for those wishing to use it straight out of the box.

The sort of thing that gets the job done well enough if used with care but pretty much every time you use it you think "I wish it were a bit better!". The latter sentiment being pretty much an inevitable part of getting started when everything has to be squeezed into the budget you have right now. When starting out you have to accept that some of the things you buy are "for now" items that will need to be replaced or re-worked later.

I suspect the first magazine article about re-working an inexpensive imported vice to give the much more engineering level of performance associated with things 3 (or more) times the price appeared about 3 months after such vices hit the shops. Most of the delay being magazine publishers lead time.

Clive

I was driven to check the work piece lift on my HBM, from just lying in the jaws to full pressure on the handle was 1 thou, letting go it dropped back to 1/2 thou . Needless to say I am very disappointed for a drill vice to move so much.

[GaunlessParticipant @gaunless]

Thank you to you all for so much comprehensive information on what I thought was a reasonably straightforward purchase!

I've been working lots of overtime lately (Fire Service) supporting the Army with logistics for Covid 19 testing, so I feel like treating myself to a few tools, and the vice is on my 'must have' list.

It always feels good to buy something lasting instead of p*****g it up the wall.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Dave Halford,

My elderly Vertex lifts about 0.002", so i would say that your vice is pretty good, unless it is an industrial quality toolroom one.

If you want Zero lift, you need one of Arc Euro's Precision Vice Type 2. the design seems to reduce the tendency to lift as it tightens.

A while ago, Jason did a comparison, and reported on this feature, on here.

Howard

[Author]

Posts