Brook Compton 1 phase motor KP6345

[Bruce StephensonParticipant @brucestephenson14065]

Bearing Caps

[Bruce StephensonParticipant @brucestephenson14065]

Hi All,

I have a Brook Compton single-phase 1/3hp motor model number KP6345. It is a later model of the KP6345 with the welded stand attached to the motor main body and has the open ball-bearings (not the Oilites of the earlier models).

I stripped the motor down some time ago and have since lost the sketch of the where the spring-steel washer goes and the 2 bearing caps on the rotor shaft. No doubt the 2 washers are designed to stop dirt from getting into the bearings from the motor side but if this assumption is correct, there is no witness marks on the circlips bearing stops on the rotor shaft.

I have written to Brooke Compton for their help but they have replied that as the motor is of a very old design, and the original factory is long closed, presumably their engineers could offer no help (the mind boggles). I have spent some time scouring the net for clues but the closest I’ve got to is a thread here on this site on stripping down the same model motor, but it was fitted with oilites, so was of no help.

So does anyone here have any idea about the correct assembly order for the two washers and spring washer for taking up end-float on the shaft?

Thanks for any assistance in advance,

B

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Surely their engineers should have some idea ? the motor is not that old !

[Bruce StephensonParticipant @brucestephenson14065]

My bad re text Larry… They said out of hand that they couldn't help. Here is the exact reply here: Unfortunately this is a very old design Doncaster Range motor we have no spares of information for these the factory where this was manufactured closed down many years ago [sic].

Maybe all their design engineers are in their early 20's and a lot younger than you or I??? Hence my post here.

Still its interesting when one considers the many hundreds of thousands of these motors that were sold all over the world, todays Brook Compton owners would be proud to think that their motors are still going strong after all these years? Surely it would be in their interest from a PR point of view, to be interested enough to both retain old drawings and offer a limited support for owners? Hey ho, the modern world aye….

Regards,

B

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Spring washers useually go on the armature after the bearing between the end of the bearing and the motor end plates one each end to stop end float

Good luck

Brian .M

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

Are they ‘crush’ washers to take up end float on assembly? Smooth side out the crush against the end housings?

just a thought – I haven’t strip one these before…

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Can you post up pics of the inside of the bearing housings in the end bells, should be able to sort it for you.

Phil

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

the wavy spring washer goes between the end housing and the bearing.

The dimpled steel washers were used with unshielded bearings and helped keep the grease on the bearing. They are fitted behind the bearing on the inner part of the shaft and retained by shaft shoulder or circlip (ie trapped between the shoulder and the bearing).

The dimples should be facing the bearing so the washer is slightly stood off the outer bearing shell slightly to avoid rubbing.

sequence is:

Housing- spring- bearing- washer- rotor+shaft- washer- bearing- spring- housing

[Bruce StephensonParticipant @brucestephenson14065]

Thanks Martin,

Clearly I have a spring washer missing as I only have one. Are you 100% sure there were two? (it would make sense I guess). I may have misplaced one?

You have confirmed what I think the washers do, that is keep grease from being flung into the motor windings and rotor. The thing I was hoping to verify my hunch was hoping to find some sort of witness marks on the circlips on the rotor but couldnt see anything that hinted that the washers had been resting up against them, hence my question here.

Thanks to all those that have taken the time to help me out, its much appreciated, so thank you.

B

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

Bruce,

I simply don't know. In most cases where I have replaced bearings, there have been two thin wavy washers. However, I have encountered an instance where there was only one, but whether by accident or design I couldn't say.

These spring/wavy washers can usually be obtained at modest cost from on line bearing factors.

Edited By Martin of Wick on 29/03/2020 10:00:12

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Some motors I have worked on only have one wavy washer. I always assumed its there to allow the armature shaft to expand with heat without straining the bearings. I always fit it to the non-drive end of the motor. Or if one bearing is a loose fit in its housing and the other is tight, fit wavy washer to the loose one.

If you are fitting new bearings, use steel shielded bearings to keep swarf out, Don't use the rubber sealed bearings as they place too much friction on the spindle at start up on these low-torque at starti-up rpm motors. The steel shields do not quite contact the inner race so there is no friction there.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Bruce Stephenson on 28/03/2020 13:49:16:

My bad re text Larry… They said out of hand that they couldn't help. Here is the exact reply here: Unfortunately this is a very old design Doncaster Range motor we have no spares of information for these the factory where this was manufactured closed down many years ago [sic].

Maybe all their design engineers are in their early 20's and a lot younger than you or I??? Hence my post here.

Still its interesting when one considers the many hundreds of thousands of these motors that were sold all over the world, todays Brook Compton owners would be proud to think that their motors are still going strong after all these years? Surely it would be in their interest from a PR point of view, to be interested enough to both retain old drawings and offer a limited support for owners? Hey ho, the modern world aye….

Regards,

B

Lots of ways firms like Brook Compton lose track of what they did in the past. The men who designed this motor are most likely all in the great workshop in the sky. They will have left drawings, but unless the motor is still being made, they could be in an Archive. Unfortunately because archiving is expensive, there's a good chance the records are long gone. When a factory closes all the non-essentials are dumped or sold. CAD drawings may be less long-lived than paper. Produced with software that's incompatible with modern systems, or the plans are on a disc somewhere, or maybe sold to someone else.

And it could be today's enterprise has few links to the original company other than the Brand Name.

'Brook Crompton today incorporates many well known names from the history of UK electric motor production including Brook Motors, Crompton Parkinson, Electrodrives (itself including AEI and English Electric), Newman and Hawker Siddeley Electric Motors.'

'Brook Crompton Holdings Ltd, a public listed company based in Singapore. The major shareholders of the Group, ATB and Wolong are both significant manufacturers of electric motors and, as strategic supply partners to Brook Crompton enable the company to offer a wide range of motor products.'

Brook Compton Holdings Ltd is currently a subsidiary of ATB-Wolong. ATB is Austria Antriebstechnik AG, who acquired Schorch, Morley, Laurence Scott, Brook Crompton, Western Electric, and others over the last 40 years.

Today, ATB is 100% owned by Wolong, a Chinese holding company registered on the Shanghai stock exchange. The conglomerate manufactures in: Zhejiang Shangyu, Zhejiang Shaoxing, Ningxia Yinchuan , Hubei Wuhan, Beijing, Shangdong Yantai, Anhui Wuhu, Spielberg, Welzheim, Moenchengladbach, Nordenham, Leeds, Norwich, Cradley Heath, Tarnow, Subotica and Bor.

Lastly, Brook Compton would much rather sell new motors than keep old bangers going. They have to keep the wolf from the door!

Dave

[Bruce StephensonParticipant @brucestephenson14065]

Fair points Dave….

Assumption is the mother of all **** ups.

Thanks for all the good gen everyone.

B

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

You forgot British Thompson Houston Dave.

Mike

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Very late in the day I know but came across this post looking on line for something.

I am not a Brook man or any motor man come to that except have many years experience of using motors on industrial fans which is my game.

Brook motors was an excellent company, you could always have a chat directly with an electrical or mechanical design chappy at Huddersfield if you had a problem, many of the local sales engineers were also time served Brook men through and through. The old Brook technical literature was excellent, I still retained them as it contained information not found in present day ones. (I still work one day a week as technical consultant) I remember well the traumatic time they went through as they were taken over by one company after another with factory closures, redundancies etc, this caused customers huge problems with deliveries but you couldn't help feeling sorry for the people at the sharp end facing the wrath of customers, the stress caused early retirement for many excellent people. A far too familiar story of british industry unfortunately.

The sad reason for Brooks inability to help is that old data and records like that is probably long gone. The people that may have memory of how things went together are also long retired or not with us.

Bill D.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Martin of Wick on 29/03/2020 09:59:24:

Bruce,

I simply don't know. In most cases where I have replaced bearings, there have been two thin wavy washers. However, I have encountered an instance where there was only one, but whether by accident or design I couldn't say.

These spring/wavy washers can usually be obtained at modest cost from on line bearing factors.

Edited By Martin of Wick on 29/03/2020 10:00:12

I think these just manage the end float, which varies due to tolerances.

[Grenville HuntParticipant @grenvillehunt47315]

Bruce,

do you have any photos of the motor in question, I worked for Brook Crompton Parkinson fractional horse power motors division in Doncaster up to 1993 and may recognise the motor, Martin OW is possibly correct but as Dave H said, "fitted due to variations in tolerances", don't forget these motors were not precision items.

Gren.

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

By the way, my understanding of wavy washers on electric motors, as well as other bearing arrangements, is to pre-load the non drive end bearing which is the free bearing. The drive end bearing being located. Pre-loading helps to stop the free end bearing from 'rattling about' a relative term of course as clearances between balls and races is extremely small. This helps with reducing noise and wear. I cannot be certain but I think wavy washers are only used on small motors, the load on the free end will be quite small and a too lightly loaded bearing is not good, the rolling element is likely to skid not roll.

Bill D.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I had a lovely jaguar car when i was 22. It got hit from the rear by a nice lady driver grr. While it was at the main dealers being straightened out i bought an Austin 1100 banger from the auctions. It was my go to work car. You may say what the hell do we want to know about that for.

Because the old banger got stolen from outside my home & dumped. I got it back minus my work tool bag, which among other things contained my little red Brookes motor book. It had every kind of motor & starter circuit. available & went back to the days of hand cranking from star to delta. etc , etc. That was 46 years ago & i still miss that little red book. It was my bible.

Steve.

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Yes, that's what I mean about Brook info. I have one of those little books tucked away somewhere, I wasn't on service side, tech. sales in the fan industry, I think one of the reps gave it to me. Absolute mine of information.

Compare that with a Siemens catalogue, an absolute nightmare of codes, part numbers, reference numbers, optional build numbers etc etc. eveything but useful information. To be fair ABB do some good tech stuff.

Bill D.

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