Worm Gear Drive : What do they mean by that ?

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Worm Gear Drive : What do they mean by that ?

Home Forums The Tea Room Worm Gear Drive : What do they mean by that ?

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  • #35168
    Michael Gilligan
    Participant
      @michaelgilligan61133

      Today’s Quiz …

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      #350213
      Michael Gilligan
      Participant
        @michaelgilligan61133

        Yesterday, I bought one of these; at what turns out to have been a very reasonable price:

         

        https://www.edmundoptics.co.uk/optomechanics/translation-stages-slides/manual-stages-slides/in-line-precision-stage-mechanism-f54d0974/

        Given what it is: Could someone please suggest what they mean by "worm gear drive" ?

        … it looks like it should be using a leadscrew.

        Perhaps uncharacteristically; I don't feel inclined to dismantle it to find out.

        MichaelG.

         

        Edited By Michael Gilligan on 15/04/2018 08:43:41

        #350217
        Brian Wood
        Participant
          @brianwood45127

          Michael,

          I am inclined to agree with you, to me it looks like a captive leadscrew that moves a close fitting nut

          Regards

          Brian

          #350220
          Michael Gilligan
          Participant
            @michaelgilligan61133

            Thanks, Brian

            To maybe deepen the mystery, I note that the pitch of that [logical] leadscrew would be 2.9mm

            [clicking the + in the filter column reveals that information]

            MichaelG.

            #350225
            IanT
            Participant
              @iant

              Could it be a worm gear driving a rack Michael?

              Regards,

              IanT

              #350227
              Roderick Jenkins
              Participant
                @roderickjenkins93242

                I think a rack could be driven by a worm arranged so that axis of the worm is in line with the length of the rack – maybe frown

                Rod

                #350228
                Michael Gilligan
                Participant
                  @michaelgilligan61133
                  Posted by IanT on 15/04/2018 09:10:17:

                  Could it be a worm gear driving a rack Michael?

                  .

                  I think it could, Ian yes

                  That might explain the curious choice of pitch.

                  MichaelG.

                  #350235
                  Michael Gilligan
                  Participant
                    @michaelgilligan61133

                    Ian & Rod

                    Yes, I'm sure that's the only logical arrangement; even if their terminology is a little cryptic.

                    … Just found a nice animation: **LINK**

                    MichaelG.

                    #350239
                    John Haine
                    Participant
                      @johnhaine32865

                      Well, one should really speak of a "worm and wheel" for the conventional " worm drive", so there's no reason why one shouldn't use the "worm" terminology for a linear drive, thought of course we would normally call the "rack" a "nut"! I can't imagine the logic behind a 2.9mm pitch which doesn't seem to correspond to anything sensible in inch or metric.

                      #350242
                      Brian Wood
                      Participant
                        @brianwood45127

                        Hello Michael,

                        The 2.9 mm pitch 'leadscrew' could by 28 DP [ pitch 2.85 mm] or 0.9 Mod [pitch 2.827 mm]

                        I still favour a screw in a nut, there might be too much backlash with a screw engaged in a rack for it to have the claimed precision

                        Could you persuade your local friendly hospital to take an X ray of it—-perhaps not under the present conditions!

                        Regards

                        Brian

                        #350243
                        peak4
                        Participant
                          @peak4
                          Posted by John Haine on 15/04/2018 10:39:21:

                          Well, one should really speak of a "worm and wheel" for the conventional " worm drive", so there's no reason why one shouldn't use the "worm" terminology for a linear drive, thought of course we would normally call the "rack" a "nut"! I can't imagine the logic behind a 2.9mm pitch which doesn't seem to correspond to anything sensible in inch or metric.

                          Maybe, but it does say Type "English", so I wonder if some of the measurements in metric are nearest imperial equivalent. The knob seems to be knurled, so I guess for manual fine adjustment, rather than a precision movement in terms of exact degrees of rotation per linear distance, since there's no angular scale.

                          2.54/2.9 = a shade over .875, hence 10 turns of the knob would be near enough 7/8"

                          Edited By peak4 on 15/04/2018 11:13:31

                          Edited By peak4 on 15/04/2018 11:14:16

                          #350244
                          Bazyle
                          Participant
                            @bazyle

                            A worm drive, and I feel that is more correct than calling it a leadscrew, rather than a nut allows it so be designed so that the depth of engagement can be adjusted to take up all backlash. I would think they have opened themselves up to a competitor who produces the same thing but with a sensible pitch so that a graduated knob can be fitted.

                            #350251
                            Clive Foster
                            Participant
                              @clivefoster55965

                              Wormscrew and racknut,which I think is the correct terminology, is hardy perennial in alternative to leadscrew drive systems.

                              One of the optical lab equipment stage makers had a section in its catalogue explaining the relative advantages of micrometer, leadscrew and racknut drives as they made all three types. Unfortunately I left that catalogue behind when made redundant so don't have the details or even recall the firm. Old so certainly binned by the twit with a Phd who took over. MIght just as well have taken it with me. My guess-recollection is that it was said to give better stability and higher axial load capability than a comparably accurate leadscrew. Especially in vertical applications. Probably the only compact type with acceptable performance if you have to use things with a vertical push up, i.e. knob at bottom, arrangement. Bad practice but sometimes inevitable.

                              Uncalibrated movement probably isn't an issue for that type of device. Although pretty much all my really precise gear had calibrations, good ones too, it frequently surprised me how rarely I exploited the calibrations. Usually worked by educated twist of the knob to zero out fringes, maximise detector response or best image quality.

                              Victoria used a similar system for the Y axis drive on some of their P, U and V series machines. Arranged to have pretty much 100% wormscrew and racknut engagement through the whole travel. Presumably the theory was that uneven wear would be minimised. Didn't seem to have worked out like that on the one I had to help make a new racknut for. About a foot of phosphor bronze bar cleaned up to a precise rectangle to match the slot in the casting with about 1/3 radius of a thread cut on the business side. Went banana in about 6 directions when unclamped! We got it straight. Eventually!

                              Clive.

                              #350276
                              Neil Wyatt
                              Moderator
                                @neilwyatt

                                Think 4-jaw chuck mechanism…?

                                Neil

                                #350278
                                Michael Gilligan
                                Participant
                                  @michaelgilligan61133
                                  Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/04/2018 16:55:46:

                                  Think 4-jaw chuck mechanism…?

                                  Neil

                                  .

                                  dont know

                                  Not really very similar … The 4-jaw chuck mechanism is just a leadscrew arrangement.

                                  MichaelG.

                                  #350279
                                  JasonB
                                  Moderator
                                    @jasonb

                                    But the jaw of a 4 jaw independant chuck is a partial nut which may be just how the inside of your gismo is made.

                                    Particularly as a worm wheel is curved to fit around the worm, a rack is straight.

                                    Edited By JasonB on 15/04/2018 17:25:40

                                    #350284
                                    Michael Gilligan
                                    Participant
                                      @michaelgilligan61133
                                      Posted by JasonB on 15/04/2018 17:23:12:

                                      But the jaw of a 4 jaw independant chuck is a partial nut which may be just how the inside of your gismo is made.

                                      .

                                      Don't forget the 2.9mm per rev feed-rate

                                      MichaelG.

                                      #350286
                                      HOWARDT
                                      Participant
                                        @howardt

                                        A worm rotating under a rack with the tooth form of a worm wheel.

                                        #350288
                                        JasonB
                                        Moderator
                                          @jasonb

                                          here is a worm rack, very similar to what you find on a 4-jaw chuck jaw. can't think why they woudl choose an odd pitch

                                          #350289
                                          Neil Wyatt
                                          Moderator
                                            @neilwyatt

                                            Exactly as Jason says, his diagram is a bit more complex, but fundamentally the same arrangement as in a 4-jaw.

                                            Neil

                                            #350292
                                            Michael Gilligan
                                            Participant
                                              @michaelgilligan61133
                                              Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/04/2018 19:05:48:

                                              Exactly as Jason says, his diagram is a bit more complex, but fundamentally the same arrangement as in a 4-jaw.

                                              .

                                              I can't really argue against that ^^^ but [in my specimens at least] the 4-Jaw chuck's arrangement has a much shorter length of 'rack' … which I would interpret as a simple half-nut.

                                              The problem of the 2.9mm per rev. feed rate remains [which seems pretty fundamental, given the small scale and the high load-capacity].

                                              MichaelG.

                                              #350293
                                              JasonB
                                              Moderator
                                                @jasonb

                                                The curved shape of the worm rack would no doubt give a far greater contact area than a straight cut rack which would be ideal for your high load capacity.

                                                Seems it is used in heavy industry as per this example.

                                                Looking through the filters at the side of the page particularly if you view all they do seem to have quite a few revs/turn that would seem to have no logic to them?

                                                #350294
                                                Michael Gilligan
                                                Participant
                                                  @michaelgilligan61133

                                                  Jason,

                                                  I agree, of course, with your first points.

                                                  Sorry, I don't understand your closing statement.

                                                  MichaelG.

                                                  #350296
                                                  JasonB
                                                  Moderator
                                                    @jasonb

                                                    I thought that by problem you were querying why the 2.9mm pitch

                                                    "The problem of the 2.9mm per rev. feed rate remains"

                                                    And I noticed that they had quite a few other pitches that had no obvious (to me) use.

                                                    Having said that a quick google of "2.9mm focal length" does bring up quite a few lenses and optics which may or maynot have anything to do with it.

                                                    #350297
                                                    Neil Wyatt
                                                    Moderator
                                                      @neilwyatt

                                                      I spent a while considering it may be some complex calculation that allows you to measure gradients using newton's rings.

                                                      Then close look at the device shows it is not graduated, so the pitch cannot be critical. Perhaps the pitch is just what turned out to be eitehr convenient to use or convenient to manufacture?

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