Remote control for 3 phase inverter.

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Remote control for 3 phase inverter.

This topic has 22 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 24 June 2013 at 20:45 by Sub Mandrel.

Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)

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18 October 2011 at 10:57 #21953
The Merry Miller
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@themerrymiller
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18 October 2011 at 10:57 #76466
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
I have obtained an Omron 3G3MV 3 phase inverter and I would like to make a remote control pendant or suchlike to interface with it.

Are there any forum members out there who may have carried out this mod. whose brains I may be able to pick.

Len.P.
18 October 2011 at 11:17 #76467
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
Len

Have you got the manual? This gives the diagram for the remote and what switches you will need to set up. Most Inverters have a similar control circuit ( I have four ) and there is no real differences between the manufacturers.

Gavin Osman advertises these inverters on http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk and no doubt he could help as well.

K
18 October 2011 at 11:36 #76471
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
Hi Kwil,

I have just downloaded a short manual and also the quick start guide.

The inverter arrived this morning and hopefully the Marelli 3 phase motor this afternoon.

I will now study the manual and see whats going on.

Len. P.
18 October 2011 at 12:35 #76473
joegib
Participant
@joegib
Here’s a neat VFD remote control diagram posted here by David Thomas 6:

Diagram

Joe
18 October 2011 at 13:01 #76475
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
Well the Marelli motor has just arrived, took it out of the box, lovely colour!, i’ts going back tomorrow, they have sent the wrong one.

Len.P.
16 June 2013 at 21:12 #122447
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
I'm soon to be wiring up a pendant for a jaguar cub motor.

My reading is that I need (aside from eth speed control pot):

red stop button – momentary switch wired to one of X1-3 programmed as 'coast to stop'

Toggel switch jog/normal wired to one of X1-3 programmed as 'Jog mode'

Toggle switch fwd-off-rvs the common terminal wired to CM via a momentary green start switch

I am I correct that programming the 3-wire 'hold mode' this will allow the green start switch to activate fwd or rvs until the red switch is pressed?

Thanks

Neil
16 June 2013 at 22:21 #122455
David Jupp
Participant
@davidjupp51506
Neil – that doesn't sound quite right –

Fwd-off-rvs, if wired via momentary start p/b, then the 'off' of the 3 position switch can't do anything (except act as a disable).

Not familiar with the Jaguar – some inverters offer more than one switching mode dependent on how you want to control it.

One that I use here is set to mimic a NVR contactor behaviour (3 wire mode) – n/o button to start, n/c button (and any interlock switches) to stop. The same inverter can also be set to have a single contact – closed for run, open for stop (2 wire mode). On my drive, fwd/rev is done via a simple on/off toggle switch, as is jog mode.

Mine is not a Jaguar drive though – so the handbook should be your ultimate guide.
17 June 2013 at 00:19 #122463
Chris Heapy
Participant
@chrisheapy71135
Sounds a bit complicated, both mine have simply a 3-position switch (Fwd, Stop, Rev) and a pot for speed. That's it.

Chris
17 June 2013 at 12:25 #122484
Brian O’Connor
Participant
@brianoconnor49474
I'm afraid that I'm unable to help Len P, but for Neil here is the circuit diagram of the remote pendant that I made for my Jaguar Cub VFD. In addition to the usual switches and a 5K pot you will need a 24v single-pole relay.

Come to think of it, perhaps Len can rig up something similar for his VFD.

Brian
17 June 2013 at 12:44 #122486
Brian O’Connor
Participant
@brianoconnor49474
This crappy website strikes again. I have tried opening the image in my above post and find that I am unable to, so presumably no-one else can either. I put it there by pasting the image from the clipboard. When creating the posting the only way that I could view what I had pasted was to click on the icon, select copy and then paste into a blank document, but once posted clicking on it has no effect.

Does anyone know how to get round the problem? I have the diagram as a Word document and as a PDF. If all else fails I could always send it to anyone interested via a PM.

Brian
17 June 2013 at 13:58 #122492
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
Hi Brian,

The remote unit I built many moons ago now is fitted to the right hand side of my Tom Senior M1 mill.

I did post images of it on this site but I can't locate them now, not even in my albums.

As a matter of interest many years ago when I was designing control panels for aircraft and ships we had procedures and ergonomics to consider that were laid down in Def-Standards (MOD were hot on this).

Most parameters, like to increase a function's value, a control dial was rotated in a clockwise direction, to decrease one would turn the dial anti-clockwise.

This, most of us see as commense sense.

What makes me wince is when I see switches labeled up such that to operate REVERSE, the switch lever moves from left to right and vice versa when good ergonomics dictates that when selecting FORWARD, the switch lever should move from left to right.

You even see this on proprietary gear being sold.

I know a lot of you would say, what the hell does it matter.

I say it's just a matter of good engineering design.

Anyway that's my grouse for today.

Love to you all!!!

Len. P.
17 June 2013 at 14:21 #122494
OuBallie
Participant
@ouballie
Len P,

You have two Left to Rights, or I'm missing something.

Geoff – Good day out yesterday.
17 June 2013 at 14:40 #122497
The Merry Miller
Participant
@themerrymiller
Possibly Oub!

Len.P.
17 June 2013 at 17:21 #122505
frank brown
Participant
@frankbrown22225
This lefthanded/righthanded business caused the Three Mile Island nuclear accident. The two adjacent control boards for the two reactors were mirror images of each other. The staff had actually put coke cans and tennis balls over the levers to differentiate between them!!!

Frank
17 June 2013 at 18:06 #122509
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
It seems that different inverters have very different controls. Brian – I've sent you a PM with my email thanks for the offer!

I do wonder if a relay will be needed.

Thanks

Neil
17 June 2013 at 18:15 #122511
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
It all starts to go wrong with them furriners who think up = on
18 June 2013 at 09:43 #122553
OuBallie
Participant
@ouballie
Oops!

I've just read Len.P.'s post again about ledt ro right, and I misread it.

Just not paying attention and brain refusing to co-operate again.

Nothing unusual then for me lately

Geoff – More office work today.
18 June 2013 at 10:12 #122554
Brian O’Connor
Participant
@brianoconnor49474
Neil,

I have sent you the circuit diagram of my Jaguar remote pendant via email. The relay is there as a safety device. When the Start button is pressed the relay operates and holds itself on, maintaining the power to the machine. If power is lost the relay drops out and the machine can only be started again once power is restored by pressing the Start button. Without the relay, if power is lost and the operator forgets to switch off, then when power is restored the machine will start on its own, just as one's grandson is saying "What's that bit for, Grandad?"
18 June 2013 at 13:53 #122577
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
Hi Brian,

Thanks, email recieved.

> When power is restored the machine will start on its own, just as one's grandson is saying

I think you have to conciously set one of the parameters to allow the motor to self-start, but the arrangement I was hoping for would require the start button to be pushed too.

Belt and braces does no harm!

Neil;
22 June 2013 at 21:35 #122933
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
Well I've got a pendant that will start and run forward or reverse, but I can't get the hold function to work. It just coasts to a stop whenever I release the start button.

A 'John S.' has offered sage advice here : **LINK** in the past, but I'm still struggling. If its 'our John S.' I fear he is on holiday…

Has anyone got this to work?

Neil
23 June 2013 at 07:34 #122940
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by The Merry Miller on 17/06/2013 13:58:29:

As a matter of interest many years ago when I was designing control panels for aircraft and ships we had procedures and ergonomics to consider that were laid down in Def-Standards (MOD were hot on this).

Most parameters, like to increase a function's value, a control dial was rotated in a clockwise direction, to decrease one would turn the dial anti-clockwise.

This, most of us see as commense sense.

.

Len,

One of the classic examples of the science of Ergonomics; very well documented by K.F.H. Murrell … The problem with ships [and with power stations, etc.] is that some controls are valves for liquid, or steam, or gas, or vacuum, which [just like the conventional water tap] increase flow when turned anti-clockwise. Murrell realised that, when abstracted to a control panel, these "taps" are better treated as "knobs" … meaning that all rotary controls are arranged to increase by clockwise rotation.

In emergency situations, people revert to instinct when turning knobs; and experiments showed that instinct was to turn knobs anticlockwise to decrease [i.e. to make safe]

… of course; the fun starts when either (a) it is "evident" that a particular control is a tap/valve or, (b) when the "make safe" requirement is to increase something.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/06/2013 07:41:35
24 June 2013 at 20:45 #123047
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
I now have a fully working remote pendant with the Jaguar Cub.

It turned out that I hadn't programmed F02 to 1, but it was still obeying external FWD/REV commands!

I programmed F02 and now it works, including jog and e-stop.

A few notes:

You can use a changeover switch to switch the run button between FWD and REV, rather than having two start buttons.

The stop button must interrupt the +24V/PLC supply to the run/jog buttons, otherwise the motor will run when the start button is pushed even though the stop circuit is broken, though it will stop when the start button is released – this is not good.

Default jog speed is zero so it won't work until you enter a jog speed. X2 is preset to operate as a jog control.

Now I just need to fit all this gubbins to the lathe.

Neil
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