Restoring Beaver VBRP Mill

[Paul MajorParticipant @paulmajor25237]

Glad this thread is becoming a bit of a source for VBRP info, since starting it I have pinged quite a few people copied of the manuals I have collected but not renewed the DropBox links, so great to see everyone sharing their info.

Mine is still in bits, but on the upside it is now in the shiny new machine shop waiting to be put back together!

@Russ, when you get an idea on price for your one ping me, probably will be out of my budget but might tempt me to short cut rebuilding mine!!

Cheers,

Paul.

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

I was going to start a new thread about my newly acquired Beaver, I'm not contemplating a full restoration, more a clean up and repair job, but is seems sensible to just add to this thread and keep all the Beaver info in one place……..hope thats ok?

Rewind a few days, and i saw a Beaver VBRP advertised on Gumtree, it was cheap and local…….Tempting ! The only problem being space, my workshop is crammed in the corner of an oversize domestic garage, with a door that limits headroom when open.

Out with the tape measure and after some 'Man' measuring i convinced myself it was a goer, so me and a mate hooked up the trailer and set off to collect.

This is my unsuspecting universal mill before it was ousted to make room…..

The seller had a forklift and agree to load the mill onto my trailer, we decided to swivel the head down on to the table to lower the COG, there are 4 bolts to loosen, and then the head should rotate on a worm and gear, unfortunately it wouldn't budge more than a few degrees either way. after much faffing about we decided to undo the bolts completely and withdraw the head enough to clear the ring gear, this allowed the head to spin. we had a strap around the forklift tines to support the weight of the head.

After some initial forklift wheelie shenanigans, (heavy old thing) we eventually got her loaded up….do you think we had enough ratchet straps on

The journey home was uneventful, apart from it raining heavily and the mill spewing loads of oil everywhere, pity anyone following us. As it was late we stuck the trailer in my mates workshop overnight.

Today we brought her home, luckily my aforementioned mate has a bloody big tractor, with a home brewed crane on the back, which made short work of unloading, he dropped it right in front of the garage, and in ten minutes we had it shoved in place on steel rollers.

First job was to work out why the head wouldn't rotate, so i wound the table up to support the head and unbolted it completely to gain access to the worm and gear.

Once inside it was obvious what the problem had been.

Strange thing is, i can't see how this gear and worm could have ever worked together, think someone has had a fiddle before……

I decided that would have to be a job for later, so boiled the head back on minus the gears and set to manually rotating it back vertical…….bugger me its heavy! in the end i used a small trolley jack and loads of wooden packers to get me most of the way vertical, with the last 30 degrees done by brute strength.

Result…..it fits….and the garage door opens…..just !

Decided to have a few hours of peace, cleaning off all the swarf, oil and shite….first impressions are good, minimal backlash, and no visible wear to the ways….The table has a few battle scars, but nothing that's going to affect anything i do in the future. Interestingly it has piping for a one shot oil system, although no resevoir or pump are present, this may account for the good condition of the ways.

More updates to follow

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

I wonder if the wheel is from a series 2 Bridgeport, or just a random gear made to fit, the gear profile looks wrong to be a used with a worm but I'm not clued up on these things.

You photos make its size look quite reasonable 😂 I remever installing a Bridgeport J head in my domestic single garage – blimey, it was half the width of the whole garage!! (if I'm not mistaken, quite small in comparison to a beaver mill)

Good luck with the project!

Edited By Russ B on 09/10/2016 00:49:39

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

I'm no expert either Russ, but something's not right, trouble is I'm unsure if it's the gear or the worm (or both) that are wrong.

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Posted by Alan Waddington 2 on 09/10/2016 01:19:12:

I'm no expert either Russ, but something's not right, trouble is I'm unsure if it's the gear or the worm (or both) that are wrong.

Your worm looks exactly right, it's the wheel.

I've dug this link out which I've believe I've referenced before. I've successfully identified worm gear sets with the help of the document. **LINK**

You appear to have a single start right hand worm and I would anticipate you can work out the DP from the linear pitch but I'd double check their formula between DP and Linear (I'm still horizontal on my phone in bed… the formula doesn't look right but it could be)

Edited By Russ B on 09/10/2016 09:38:49

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Gosh those photo's bring back memories. I bought it's little brother "Beaver Pal" ? with a prince hunter logo on the badge. £850 new in 1974 a year later one that looks like your machine. I always thought the slideways to be better than a Bridgeport but did not get on with the head and favoured the Bridgeport. Happy days when I could earn good money !

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Funnily enough I looked at that website last night, but bamboozled myself, will have another read. Am pleased you think it's the gear that is incorrect. I've never had cause to make any gears, but after looking at countless youtube videos I think I'd rather tackle the gear than the shaft/worm.

Thanks for your help BTW, as I'm in uncharted territory here.

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

The full PDF which lines up terminology in previous chapters can be found here after a quick google. It's well worth going through the whole thing just out of interest!

**LINK**

[Paul MajorParticipant @paulmajor25237]

Not sure if it helps but here are pics of my gear, seems to show that the gears on mine are bevelled not straight cut like yours! (probably the wrong terminology but you can see what I mean)

No idea where the spindle is so couldn't take a photo of that

Cheers,

Paul.

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

That's really useful Paul, and looks like i would have expected the gear to, with the concave tooth form. I wonder if you could find time to measure the diameter for me ?

Had a closer look at mine today and did some measuring up, had the gear stood on end and it suddenly struck me that even ignoring the tooth form etc….the bloody gear is cut the wrong hand !

This picture shows how it would sit when in situ…..

The only thing i had to try and measure the angle of the worm and gear teeth was a 2 ft rule with a line of chords on it……..not exactly precision, but after measuring both parts a few times i was getting consistent results, worm is 3 degrees and gear is 4 degreesI just need to try and work out what form the worm is, and either have a go myself or get a new gear made.

Did have some more progress today, moved lots of stuff around in my little corner, to try and make the area more workable, and also drilled and tapped the side of the mill to hold a nut and clamp set that i bought ages ago on ebay.

I never thought to question the size, and when it arrived realised the studs and T nuts were about 3 sizes too big for my old mill Fits this one perfectly though, so must have been fate

Also discovered my rotary phase converter has dropped a phase, so currently poking about inside to find the problem..

[Daniel RobinsonParticipant @danielrobinson12697]

I have uploaded a RAR file of Oil conversions for the Beaver:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjl9chc90iw4l1o/oil.rar?dl=0

it has an old v's new conversion sheet and PDF's on all the oils it needs.

Dan

[Paul MajorParticipant @paulmajor25237]

Hi Alan,

sorry its taken so long to respond but here are some more photos of the gear. It looks to me like it is bang on 6 inches diameter. I'm afraid I didn't have time to count the teeh but hopefully the photos are good enough that you can do that from enlarging them

 

Cheers,

 

Paul.

Edited By Paul Major on 18/10/2016 13:38:37

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Thats great info Paul, thanks for your time, much appreciated.

[RobonthemoorParticipant @robonthemoor]

Just looking at buying a beaver 5 mill off eBay the one in Aberdeen Inverurie's how tall are they, & what do they waigh & do you know the hp of each motor, I will need an inverter , the table as a lot of damage will that affect the X y accurey, please help I know nothing about them,regards rob

[Daniel RobinsonParticipant @danielrobinson12697]

Hi Rob,

My MkII is a weighty beast at 1.5 tonnes. I built a frame with anti-vibration feet that it sits on which I move around with a pallet truck.

The beaver 5 looks to be a similar height and that is taller than the average garage hight and the motor on my MKII is 5KW 220v 3phase so take that into consideration when you are looking to buy a phase converter. You can get them on ebay for about £200.

The bed sounds troubling as if it is as damaged as you say to has been abused. if its just drilled then so be it but some i have seen have cracked t-slots where clamps of the wrong size have been used or undue force has been applied to rip a t-nut out. Not sure if this would have an effect on the level of the bed.

just a suggestion but pay cash on collection and take a measuring head with you and clamp it in the spindle then pass the bed under it to see how flat the bed actually is in relation to the spindle nose.

Dan

[RobonthemoorParticipant @robonthemoor]

Thanks for that info, the problem I have it's in north Scotland so can't view it, the table is as you say 1 inch plus lumps out of it with 15 holes drilled into it, well abused no machinist would do that" must have had a rough life. I can get it in my workshop hight wise, my fork lift is only a tone lift so that's a problem but can get my hands on a 5 tone one from my neighbor. Found one in Leicester £1500 may be a better buy, will go & have a look next week, view before you buy as got to be the way. What should I look for in regard to the problem part on this machine? I don't know anything about the problems they have, I bought my deckel fp1 blind he said it was working fine, turns out he bought it from sctland & never used it, I ended up completely rebuilding it, fun to do though🙂.

Thanks again any help or advice is great fully recieved 👍

[Daniel RobinsonParticipant @danielrobinson12697]

Hi Rob, having looked at the ebay listing for the Beaver in Scotland (no pun intended) I would leave it alone and and opt for the machine in Leicester. I know it is more but you get peace of mind with an undamaged bed, and tooling, which is the expensive bit.

The weight is an issue only initially, everything I had bought up until the Beaver was 0.5 tonnes and i was used to manhandling them. The additional weight compounds movement even dropping it off a pallet but a couple of roof props and a car jack, job done, with a forklift I could perform miracles. Having said that borrow your friends as its better to over engineer than rely on the safety factor of the lifting equipment you are using.

The Beaver is a solid machine but points to lookout for are:

• Motor… older machines have a 415v motor and cannot be star configured (I have had to have mine re wound and yes it would have been cheaper to find a more modern replacement but then there was fitting it and finding the correct spindle and key and….. just saying that there are machines that run both 400 and 220 volt…
• The common references for abuse such as movement in the X and Y, but this can all be adjusted.
• As you can see from the posts above there is a lot of weight on the neck and boom and both points pivot so loosen off the nuts and ratchet the head to a different angle and then back again to make sure its not jammed.
• clogged oil points, especially on the automated oilers and grease / oil caps are attached. There is a grease point in the head that has a plastic cover, without which becomes contaminated very quickly and the spindle will cease to move (call me a drama queen)
• Silly but important, all the handles are attached / available
• Coolent capture skirt… even the one in leicester doesn't have it…. does everyone cut without coolent?
• Coolent guard and pump…. switch it on! there is a very large reservoir inside the main body so the pump does a lot of work. changing it is a cow! listen to how it sounds.

Dan

[RobonthemoorParticipant @robonthemoor]

Lot of advice thank Dan,.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Gentlemen,

​Selling on eBay today for £7.45 is a manual for a Beaver VBRP Mk II mill, currently with no bids. Auction runs to 18 November at just over 21.00 hrs

.I have no interest in promoting the sale, but handbooks for any worthwhile machine seem hard to come by

​The blurb says it has been refurbished by the current owner, but it looks nicely in plastic sleeves.

Regards
Brian

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Have to agree with Dan, the one in Leicester definitely looks worth the extra money, although a bit cheeky including a close up photo of a very nice machine vice, only to say in the description that it's not included in the sale… The Scottish one would be worth a punt at £500, the poor table has suffered some serious abuse.

[RobonthemoorParticipant @robonthemoor]

Do you guys know of anybody who could lift it onto my trailer its two tone, at Leicester junction 21 area, or transport back to north lincolshire market Rasen area LN7 6 if I buy it after viewing🙂 Next week.

[RobonthemoorParticipant @robonthemoor]

Posted by Robonthemoor on 11/11/2016 13:22:02:

Do you guys know of anybody who could lift it onto my trailer its two tone, at Leicester junction 21 area, or transport back to north lincolshire market Rasen area LN7 6 if I buy it after viewing🙂 Next week.

Got it sorted, just to view now, if good machine happy day😍

[Daniel RobinsonParticipant @danielrobinson12697]

Having looked hard at the one in Leicester the vice on the bed is not the same vice on the pallet. If he wants £50 for the one on the pallet then bit his arm off. It’s a precision vice and looks completely undamaged and worth a small fortune in its own right.

He also mentions a “few BT40 bits” which I believe he will try to sell you on top of the price shown here based on the vice situation.

Buy them!

£25 each tops, less if you are good at negotiation.

The machine has an automatic drawbar which is a really nice feature (green with envy) but will need the BT40 connection. BT40, ISO40 and 40international are variations on a theme but will impact what the drawbar will take.

The Clarkson set is REALLY nice and looks to be included in the listing as it is mentioned.

Keep us informed as to your impressions and what happens when you get it home!

Dan

[RobonthemoorParticipant @robonthemoor]

Posted by Daniel Robinson on 12/11/2016 10:02:16:

Having looked hard at the one in Leicester the vice on the bed is not the same vice on the pallet. If he wants £50 for the one on the pallet then bit his arm off. It’s a precision vice and looks completely undamaged and worth a small fortune in its own right.

He also mentions a “few BT40 bits” which I believe he will try to sell you on top of the price shown here based on the vice situation.

Buy them!

£25 each tops, less if you are good at negotiation.

The machine has an automatic drawbar which is a really nice feature (green with envy) but will need the BT40 connection. BT40, ISO40 and 40international are variations on a theme but will impact what the drawbar will take.

The Clarkson set is REALLY nice and looks to be included in the listing as it is mentioned.

Keep us informed as to your impressions and what happens when you get it home!

Dan

Going on Tuesday all been well can't wait😀

[RobonthemoorParticipant @robonthemoor]

Hi dan, I'm slowly reading through this topic of your tear down, rotory converter! Any leads to that, do you mean like a trans wave🤔 I think the Leicester one will have 5 motor on it, was thinking of using vfd inverters. Would be nice to get your views.

Rob

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