J&S 540 way lube question

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

Evening All,

I have finally, after many years, got my 540 wired up and filled with oil.

It runs

I understand the ways are lubed by the hydraulic system, but how "wet" should they get? They don't seem to have much, if any lube, so is it possible that whatever passages are there have got blocked?

Dave

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Very wet, lift the table off and run the machine, you will see the little oil holes, oil should be coming out and into the channels machined in the ways. I had to poke mine out with a small drill or a bit of tig rod.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

Thanks.

I've not dismantled this before, but the table just sits on i think?

So "just" un bolt the ends of the ram and lift?

Any gotchas for the saddle, which also probably needs to come off?

Dave

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Early 640's (the ones with the straight-sided column and belt drive pump) were manually lubed saddle ways. Often neglected. The early ones also had small brass flow control valves behind the table for the pumped oil.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

The hydraulic tank is a chain drive unit, made in 1960 according to the build plate in the tank cover

 

I presume the machine is the same age.

it does have a broken auto oiler I haven’t investigated yet, but IIRC the pipes from that go to the hand wheels and such, not obviously the ways.
Im missing the table guards if anyone has leads on a set, otherwise I’ll probably make something.

Dave

Edited By Dave S on 23/04/2020 09:16:17

Edited By Dave S on 23/04/2020 09:17:24

Edited By Dave S on 23/04/2020 09:18:04

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Looks pretty much like mine, similar vintage i would guess.

yes table is easy to get off, unbolt ram and it lifts staight off.

did mine without help, but would be much easier with two people.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

Just back from the garage

lifted the table with a little help from a block and tackle.
The oil is there, and coming out into the ways.
I ran the pistons back and forth a bit and plenty seems to come out.
I think maybe I wasn’t patient enough to let the oil come through properly – after all it is probably best part of 10 years since it had oil in.

Pleasingly the oil ran through nice and clean.

Whilst I was there tho I noticed that the piston rods both have a bit of a bend in them. Doesn’t seem to bind or cause an issue so I intend to file that in the “someday” pile – unless anyone knows it’s critical to fix now.

Having run it for an hour or two tonight there seems to be oil on all the ways. Less in the left hand saddle way (the hand wheel side) but still some.

How does the oil get from the table “trough” to the saddle? Or is there a separate feed to the saddle?

I haven’t found a hydraulic diagram anywhere.

Did a little measuring, but I’ll start a new thread for that.

Dave

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

Forgot to add:

There is a dome cover on the front of the valve block:

With a thing under it.

Looks like an adjuster for something – I have left well alone but does anyone know what it’s for?

i did wonder if it was to do with the amount of way lube

Dave

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi Dave that is the adjuster for the traverse and hydraulic pressure just best left alone till you know it needs adjusting. I think the lubrication is adjusted by small valves inside the column under the bed. I believe the auto oiler is for the column and vertical lead screw there may be a small pipe with a tray to catch the old oil. Some spares are avilabke from Andmar. https://www.andmar.co.uk/ check the chain and gear on the pump and also the tank has a tendency to corrode by coolant getting into the oil and sitting under the oil. If the cylinder rods are badly bent don't file just remove the the cylinder and rods and straighten with soft mallet etc. If not repairable you can buy chromed rod to replace them. Also if you strip them check the seals for wear, they are available not to expensive.

David

Edited By David George 1 on 24/04/2020 22:09:36

Edited By David George 1 on 24/04/2020 22:11:21

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

I lifted the table again to remove the rods and straighten them.

After lifting this time I used a couple of hefty ratchet straps to secure the table up and as out of the way as I could..

I put the machine in a corner and built around it, so in the current environment I can't get the table away from the machine – no helpers and its to heavy to manage on my own.

Then I removed the piston assembly. I tried to take a photo of how bent the rods were:

There was a sort of S bend in one and a single bend in the other.

Ideally I have a large surface table, of course its buried under a load of car parts at the moment.

Fortunately my Mill is somewhat oversized, so its table stood in as bench and inspection area.

Carefully using some V Blocks and an arbour press I have successfully straightened the rods. It all went back togetther ok. Ran out of time at that point, so I'll run it this evening and check for leaks, but it wasn't leaking before, so I expect it'll be ok.

Fould the cross way oiling holes (I think) under the ram body, and checked they were clear. cleaned a lot of very fine black paste out from under the table as well. Hopefully the spindle oil will be here this week and I can grind something.

Dave

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi Dave you can run the hydraulics without the bed on to see if the oil lube is working and if the cylinder has excessive leakage. The oil should just drain back to tank, look for blockages, and clean route to tank.

David

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

David,

Now I’ve strapped the table out of the way that was the plan

I’ve noticed the wipers on the cross feed look oily now, which is a good sign I think

Dave

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

This is a good thread, information on The Jones and Shipman surface grinders is scarce and difficult to find. I bought a 540 last year and am waiting for this lockdown to finish, so i can get it painted and reassembled.

Does anyone happen to know if the Hydraulic pump in the base that powers the table, was made by J&S, or did they buy them in ? I need two copper gaskets for mine.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I believe they were made by or for J & S but you can try Andmar for spares. https://www.andmar.co.uk/machine-spares .

David

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Posted by David George 1 on 28/04/2020 20:32:54:

I believe they were made by or for J & S but you can try Andmar for spares. https://www.andmar.co.uk/machine-spares .

David

Did not think J&S would bother making a pump for themselves, but like electrical components would simply buy them in from a specialist company. I know of Andmar and visit their website, but like most machine tool spares companies, their website is not very good.

I will email them and see if they can help me with a few bits and bobs i need.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

My hydraulic tank has a build plate from the Lancashire Crypo Mfd, for Jones and Shipman.

My spindle oil arrived and the whole machine works, but I think my spindle might need some adjustment.

I'm waiting for some known wheels (on order) to give me a better benchmark, but there is, I think too much endfloat.

Dave

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