Boiler Burners Part 1

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Hi, I would like to experiment with the construction of a spirit burner. In K.N.Harris's excellent book "Model Boilers and Boilermaking", he describes (meths) spirit burners in a simple wick and a vaporized burners, the latter requiring a wick-fed pilot flame.

The query regards the wick, which is required for both burners. What material is the wick made from? Anyone out here able to advise on this, and where it can be obtained?

Thanks, ChrisH

Edited By ChrisH on 02/10/2013 22:12:22

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

[Engine BuilderParticipant @enginebuilder]

Hi Chris,

I haven't seen the book but you can get a flat wick for paraffin greenhouse heaters from places like B and Q

If you want a smaller wick some cotton type old fashioned string works well.

Edited By Engine Builder on 02/10/2013 21:59:47

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Chris, I use a bundle of iron wire, it's florists wire, about 24/26 swg (I have not measured it), got the idea from a copy of vol one Model Engineer 1898, have not tried yet but I think stainless wire would be OK, I don't recommend copper wire, it will conduct heat away into the fuel tank faster that the iron. Ian S C

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Hi, greenhouse heater wicks sound good, will try that.

Ian, I had thought of wire wool, but thought that might burn!  Might give it a try now though, and try the wire you suggested.

Ian again.  Whenever I read your comments on this forum I always think with affection of the early 1970's when I visited North and South Islands on one of Shaw Savills ships, it was such a special place then, hope it still is now.

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 03/10/2013 22:05:34

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

From another thread I have had another thought, would stove fire rope (used for wood burning stove door seals) work does anyone think?

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

Hi Chris

I'm building a Tubal Cain Polly at the the moment for my grandson. Both of Tubal's books have details of spirit burner construction in them. I bought some wick from EBAY and the read the part about it only being suitable for paraffin burners and NOT being suitable for spirit burners. I don't know what the difference is, perhaps look on "Wick a Pedia" sorry! I plan to use three 4mm wicks in mine that are advertised for spirit burners. Watch out for the B&Q stock.

Regards

Bob..

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Chris… the Gauge 1 fraternity predominantly use spirit burners in their locomotives and obtain astonishing performances. There is constant debate about the efficacy of various types of wick but two of the most popular at the moment are carbon fibre and the ceramic fibre that is used to insulate boilers. These both have the advantage of not burning away to the extent of wicks of natural fibre. Both types are available at Gauge 1 suppliers. The one I use is "Just the Ticket" tel. 01980 610058. Usual disclaimer applies. For successful spirit firing, as important as the wick type, is how the wicks are packed, the height below the heated surface and air flow around the wicks etc but that is a whole new can of worms and some would say one of the black arts.

Mick

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I'v tried all sorts of wicks with kerosene/paraffin, and found it is a "black art", its a good way of producing lamp black.

Chris, the place is as good if not better than the 1970s, we get cruise ships by the hundreds, but here in Canterbury most of the ships anchor in Akaroa harbour.  This is some 80k from Christchurch, but a large number of passengers make the rail trip to Arthur's Pass, then by bus to Homebush for a cuppa, and a look round the garden, and museum (That's just a few k from my place).  One day/year the ships will return to Lyttelton, but the berths there were badly damaged in the earthquake three years ago.     Ian S C 

Edited By Ian S C on 04/10/2013 10:44:46

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Thanks to all for the suggestions re wicks – I will follow them up.

I did try a very little experiment using some wire wool – finest grade – stuffed into a short length of 15mm pipe (I did say it was a very small experiment!) which had the bottom blocked off. It worked quite well, got a decent flame, surprisingly hot, using the French version of meths – no blue colour and very cheap, buy it in the supermarket – the wire wool didn't seem to burn, well nothing to worry about anyway, and it all gave me encouragement to try something bigger and better. Things like how hard the wool is rammed in and how much the wick stands proud of the top are things to think about, plus air supply and of course, control.

Spirit cookers for boats use a similar wick based container too, but a very broad container, not very high containing just over a litre of spirit, with a flat wick across the top with a quite large gapped mesh across the top. Can't remember sizes, but is the container is say 8" in diameter and about 1.5" high then the hole i the middle for the flame is only about 2" diameter.  The wick does not stand proud and the cookers produce a fair bit of heat.  Control is by a cover that can be slid across the top from fully open to completely shut.

Ah Ian, Lyttelton, that was a lovely port when I was there, so quiet, peaceful and beautiful unspoilt scenery!

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 04/10/2013 19:18:37

Edited By ChrisH on 04/10/2013 19:21:28

Edited By ChrisH on 04/10/2013 19:23:51

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

> the French version of meths – no blue colour and very cheap

Eau du vie?

The mamod burners uses to be simple trays with a pierced metal sheet across the top, my replacement has wire gauze. The old meths camping stoves we used to have (Trangia?) simply had a metal pot with no wick.

Neil

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

In a trangia “tradg”..there is an internal wick inside the brass below the burner holes..

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Neil – the French version of meths is Alcool a Bruler. There is an accent over the 'a' and an upside down v over the 'u', but I can't do that on my keyboard!

Price for it is under 2euros for a litre and around 8 euros for 5litres.

Chris

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

The French stuff is said to be vastly superior to that which one can buy in this country (surprise, surprise). A lot of Gauge 1 people use Industrial alcohol which is much purer and on a par with the French variety but it does require a licence (easily obtainable) from HMRC.

Mick

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Mick – I do believe that the French stuff is superior – hasn't got all that dye and stuff they put in it in the UK to discourage the wineo's for a start…..!

Chris

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

?- hasn’t got all that dye and stuff they put in it in the UK to discourage the wineo’s for a start…..!Chris?

Or water..methylated spirit seems to be more dilute than it used to be..it has been noted as a heat source that its performance has dropped.

st a reply:

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Did someone use the word French ans Superior in the same sentence….go wash your mouth out with soap!!

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Don't you believe it, not all French stuff is better it's true but there is an awful lot in France that we could learn from. They have their faults over there, but don't we have here too! I'm amazed at the stuff I find over there that is better than here in the UK, so I'll pass on the soap mouthwash mate!

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

I believe their white flags are simply the best!!

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Chris, An article in the Christchurch Press last week, said that the port of Lyttelton will not open to cruise ships before 2017.

When I was 9 or 10yrs old, and I thought I had invented the Pop Pop motor for a boat, I used a metal bottle cap with cotton wool in it, to make a meths burner. Dad then informed me that these motors had been around for many years, and he had one when he was a boy, but I still thought it was great because I had thought it up myself.

Ian S C

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by ChrisH on 05/10/2013 22:16:08:

Don't you believe it, not all French stuff is better it's true but there is an awful lot in France that we could learn from.

Such as being able to buy acetone, and sulphuric acid in supermarkets in addition to the meths and even oxy-acetylene in DIY stores

Russell.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

That last is interesting.
So the proscription of sale of various product is a UK thing not EU.

Reminds me of when CE marking and specifically EMC was introduced to UK..
A Senior rep. from trading standards ( the body lumbered with enforcement) said at a talk to industry reps. ” of course all member states must enforce this directive since it has the status of LAW ( my caps.) , individual states will from past experience implement this in different ways..the Germans will throughly enforce on both imports and domestic production, the Italians and Spanish will follow a case by case solution. .what passed last week might not this week. .and might next week.., the French will rigorously enforce on all imports ..only, the UK will enforce on all domestic production ..only being too polite to reject other contries product.”

This was all before CE stood for ChineseExport

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Jason,

When I worked on some EU committees some time ago the difference between the nationalities was striking:

Germans – wanted everything standardised because if it wasn't specified in the standard they couldn't do it.

Italians – wanted to produce a long winded academic paper on every aspect.

British – didn't want anything standardised.

Spanish – couldn't be bothered to turn up.

French – would agree to anything because they would ignore the rules anyway.

Russell

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Russell .That bears out much of my experience.

Once had a drawing for a part for german company. Material spec was in effect misspelt.
Couldn’t get that material obviously . Couldn’t change drawing.
Couldn’t get concession.
Couldn’t make part

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

I did ask a retailer why it was so difficult to obtain stuff that seems to be freely available on the continent, USA, Australia etc. His view was that the Health & Safety industry together with the Risk Assessment industry and Insurance Industry, in conspiring to make maximum profits for themselves have ensured that their fellow citizens suffer for their corporate greed. Add to this the classic "jobsworth" mentality of British officialdom and we arrive at the situation we are in. He cited an example of trying to obtain methylated spirit but his carrier had been prohibited from carrying it by insurance risk assessors, notwithstanding the fact that the delivery vehicle by necessity had a fuel tank of diesel at best and petrol at worst.

Mick

[Author]

Posts