The Benefits of using a standalone dividing head.

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The Benefits of using a standalone dividing head.

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  • #320495
    MW
    Participant
      @mw27036

      Hi,

      I've got two rotary tables and although one of them is CNC, (it's for a smaller model machine).

      I'm sick of spinning the handles at a 90:1 ratio and having to lock up and unlock all the time on the manual mill whenever I want to make PCD's or Hexagon milling. The Big Rotary table I do have, doesn't feel very rigid either when I need to set it up at angles.

      So I did a little brief reading on Harold hall's book on dividing, and it would seem the old fashioned solution to this problem would be to use a dividing head.

      So I've looked around for some models to see what's affordable without going ballistic on the price and the best deal I can seem to find is a 5" rotary table that comes with a chuck on the bay of all bays. **LINK**

      So I've got a link there and i'll put a picture here…

      So although the picture is a little askew, it's got a robust looking construction and a chuck that I know will fit it. The tailstock looks a bit shabby but it doesn't need to be suberb as the head.

      So yeah, just throw some noise at me. Think it's a good idea?

      Michael W

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      #18687
      MW
      Participant
        @mw27036
        #320496
        Andrew Tinsley
        Participant
          @andrewtinsley63637

          Looks OK to me. I just hope the holes on the plate give you the divisions you want, otherwise plate making can take a little time.

          Andrew.

          #320498
          MW
          Participant
            @mw27036
            Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 08/10/2017 12:31:17:

            Looks OK to me. I just hope the holes on the plate give you the divisions you want, otherwise plate making can take a little time.

            Andrew.

            Yeah, cheers for that Andrew, It does look fine to me to but I like to take a reality check with everyone else.

            Indeed, it does have 3 division plates and a scale on the side so I should be able to quickly reference a position without needing to count holes. I think the number of holes really comes into it's own field when you get into gear making and tooth counts for large wheels. Luckily I don't need to do anything like that for now..

            Michael W

            Edited By Michael-w on 08/10/2017 12:35:20

            #320504
            MW
            Participant
              @mw27036

              One thing I have noticed is the scale on the rotary plate doesn't reference degrees like a rotary table. So In order to divide the wheel, I would need to know the maximum number and then divide that number into how many divisions I want, 2, 3, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc..

              #320507
              Mick B1
              Participant
                @mickb1

                Looks good for hex milling and other horizontal axis work. It's probably parallax, but one pic looks as if it's showing 1 degree or so out of horizontal. Is there a locking pin to engage it at horizontal?

                Can't easily see how much daylight you'd need if you wanted to use it as a rotary table. Not sure how good it'd be in that role with a smallish miller.

                But hey, it looks excellent for the money.

                #320512
                MW
                Participant
                  @mw27036
                  Posted by Mick B1 on 08/10/2017 12:57:47:

                  Looks good for hex milling and other horizontal axis work. It's probably parallax, but one pic looks as if it's showing 1 degree or so out of horizontal. Is there a locking pin to engage it at horizontal?

                  Can't easily see how much daylight you'd need if you wanted to use it as a rotary table. Not sure how good it'd be in that role with a smallish miller.

                  But hey, it looks excellent for the money.

                  Thanks, yeah I've looked at other tables and it's probably got more going for it in terms of value, the other ones are made by Vertex badged, notably, you can just throw financial sense out the window if you're not careful.(Maybe, theres better accuracy in the construction, but i'd have no way of telling that, and as far as I know, anybody makes vertex stuff, could even be made by this non branded variety.) 

                  I think theres locking handles on the other side of the assembly, and possibly some adjustment screws. The picture is slightly off because I needed to scale the image for the forum without just placing a massive screeny infront of everyone.

                  Michael W

                  Edited By Michael-w on 08/10/2017 13:21:16

                  #320513
                  JasonB
                  Moderator
                    @jasonb
                    Posted by Michael-w on 08/10/2017 12:44:57:

                    One thing I have noticed is the scale on the rotary plate doesn't reference degrees like a rotary table. So In order to divide the wheel, I would need to know the maximum number and then divide that number into how many divisions I want, 2, 3, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc..

                    The scale behind the chuck is 0-360, that's degrees in my book.

                    You also have a set of 24 holes for simple indexing so don't need to wind the handle for those.

                    #320514
                    MW
                    Participant
                      @mw27036
                      Posted by JasonB on 08/10/2017 13:19:54:

                      Posted by Michael-w on 08/10/2017 12:44:57:

                      One thing I have noticed is the scale on the rotary plate doesn't reference degrees like a rotary table. So In order to divide the wheel, I would need to know the maximum number and then divide that number into how many divisions I want, 2, 3, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc..

                      The scale behind the chuck is 0-360, that's degrees in my book.

                      You also have a set of 24 holes for simple indexing so don't need to wind the handle for those.

                      Ah, well that's a relief, I suppose the numbers have the "0" abbreviated.

                      #320518
                      Michael Briggs
                      Participant
                        @michaelbriggs82422

                        For pcd's use your DRO, hex milling : **LINK**

                        #320520
                        Bazyle
                        Participant
                          @bazyle

                          Dividing heads are normally quoted by their centre height. The link quotes 5in but the spec is a tad under 4in. They seem to be referring to the chuck being 5 in thought the swing is different again as it (probably) allows for the mounting foot usinga zero head height bolt.. Although that is a good size for MEs it is deceptive advertising.

                          You could get a used genuine 5in universal for about half the price but not all have the worm release and quick index option.

                          #320531
                          not done it yet
                          Participant
                            @notdoneityet

                            My noise is not so good for your idea on this item.

                            In my opinion it's a rotary table taking up more space. Value for money depends on quality. Unless you need the extra horizontal-vertical angle adjustment, I don't see much advantage. I doubt this example is of exceptional quality or durability and I would prefer to spend more money on a used dividing head with decent provenance. None of them eat anything, but good ones will not depreciate.

                            My Vertex rotary table currently has a 4 jaw self centering chuck fitted. It will be changed for a 4 jaw independent at some time. I need to cut gears near the centre (tailstock) to keep decent concentricity (OK, turning between centres with a drive lug fixed to the table might be better).

                            Turning a handle at 90:1 is not that much of a hardship unless using it a lot, or for income, is my view. Your choice, as always, but there are my thoughts…

                            #320649
                            Neil Wyatt
                            Moderator
                              @neilwyatt

                              Not sure… but how is this going to save your handle turning? A Dividing head won't turn itself

                              (Unless it's CNC but…)

                              #320662
                              Tony Pratt 1
                              Participant
                                @tonypratt1

                                I have the Vertex version [BSO, 4" centre height] of the linked dividing head, seems fairly good Taiwanese quality, only bug bear for me is to disengage the worm you have to remove the sector arms/dividing plate.

                                If you can afford it a dedicated tool for the job is always better than a multi-purpose offering, i.e. rotary table for curves radial slots etc. & dividing head for squares, hexagons etc.

                                Never heard of the Vevor archi brand though?

                                Tony

                                #320671
                                Michael Gilligan
                                Participant
                                  @michaelgilligan61133
                                  Posted by Neil Wyatt on 09/10/2017 08:33:26:

                                  Not sure… but how is this going to save your handle turning? A Dividing head won't turn itself

                                  .

                                  I had the same thought when Michael-w started this thread, but then realised that [unlike his rotary table?] the chosen head might have the facility to disengage the worm for simple indexing.

                                  This is; as my Liverpudlian friends used to say: "Like using a Rolls Royce to kill a pig"

                                  MichaelG.

                                  #320673
                                  JasonB
                                  Moderator
                                    @jasonb
                                    Posted by Neil Wyatt on 09/10/2017 08:33:26:

                                    Not sure… but how is this going to save your handle turning? A Dividing head won't turn itself

                                    (Unless it's CNC but…)

                                    40:1 on the dividing head means a lot less handle twiddling than 90:1 on a rotary table, plus as I pointed out earlier it has indexing holes for common numbers.

                                    J

                                    PS Michael, you are very close to a landmark posting

                                    Edited By JasonB on 09/10/2017 10:09:44

                                    #320690
                                    Hopper
                                    Participant
                                      @hopper

                                      Depending on what you plan to use it for, if you want to get away from handle twiddling, have you considered a spin indexer?

                                      #320691
                                      Juddy
                                      Participant
                                        @juddy

                                        I brought one of those from that seller as well, only used it once so far. For the price it is quite good, very solid. The chuck is screw on with the same thread as an Atlas and I believe Boxford – 1 1/2 8tpi which is a bonus if you happen to have one.

                                        The worm can be released to allow the chuck to turn freely, it has a locking pin at the rear to allow it to be rotated quickly to the set positions (can't remember how many off hand) also a locking handle for clamping in position when using the handle.

                                        I'm quite pleased with it, but then I don't have much experience with dividing heads to compare it to anything else.

                                        #320692
                                        IanT
                                        Participant
                                          @iant

                                          Entirely agree with Hopper.

                                          A Spin Indexer will do for most PCDs and for hex, a Hex Collet block will be a lot less money and much simpler in use – probably quicker too.

                                          Commercial large dividing heads may be good for complex gear cutting (especially when used with a universal mill for instance) but they seem over the top for most hobbyist use – especially when simpler means can usually be found. If you need a 'special' index count – then why not make a custom plate for the Spin Indexer – OxTools (I think it was) had a YouTube about that a couple of years ago or so…

                                          Regards,

                                          IanT

                                          #320696
                                          Mike Poole
                                          Participant
                                            @mikepoole82104

                                            Some rotary tables can disengage the worm so the table can spin quickly using the degree scale for position. Quick indexers are also available. I don't think you will get away from having to lock before cutting.

                                            Mike

                                            #320710
                                            MW
                                            Participant
                                              @mw27036

                                              Perhaps I need to explain my other RT's a bit more. I have a sherline cnc mill with a cnc rotary table, it's very well made and good for what it does (I was very lucky to not have to pay for any of that kit) but they aren't machines that can handle heavy materials and I don't think they- as a company- make any bones about that. Great for small aluminium, plastics, and what not but certainly will only do steel on the side of caution.

                                              The bigger rotary table does quite a mainstay of the milling work on my much larger warco table top. the chuck is about 3-4" big.

                                              There are some really really irritating things about it though, that I'm not too keen on. One is the assembly is just like a big cast moveable right angle plate, that secures with one bolt that goes through the whole axle. It isn't very sturdy basically and even doing a light plunge with horizontal milling will cause the setup to deflect, no matter how tightly you do it up.

                                              The handle twiddling is slightly annoying and I respect that it's a common problem with RT's. I had to drill a 4 hole PCD on a lot of big plastic spigots, I had nine to do in total and it felt a bit silly having to swivel the handle like a mad man to index it, you don't get a feel for that until you do it, believe me. I will keep it for genuine rotary cutting though.

                                              So, for one, I really like the rigid design on this one. No alignment problems with the chuck, coz it goes straight on. And as far as I understand it, you can just spin the detent to the next hole in one fell swoop, rather than 20-30 turns of the handle. I'm glad to see someone else has it and likes it.

                                              I do like the idea of the Stevenson collet blocks too, they look like a really great way to get some basic indexing on the cheap, hats off to him, he found a gap in the market. Unfortunately I don't have many ER32 collets, I have tons of ER40, so I would have to buy a lot for that to get a decent range.

                                              PS: You'll have to tell me what the landmark is J.B, otherwise i'll pass it without realising it. cheeky

                                              #320712
                                              JasonB
                                              Moderator
                                                @jasonb

                                                That was aimed at Michael G, 9999 posts as of now.

                                                #320715
                                                Neil Wyatt
                                                Moderator
                                                  @neilwyatt
                                                  Posted by Michael-w on 09/10/2017 13:33:16:

                                                  PS: You'll have to tell me what the landmark is J.B, otherwise i'll pass it without realising it. cheeky

                                                  Michael G. is on post 9999

                                                  #320762
                                                  Meunier
                                                  Participant
                                                    @meunier
                                                    Posted by Michael-w on 09/10/2017 13:33:16:

                                                    I do like the idea of the Stevenson collet blocks too, they look like a really great way to get some basic indexing on the cheap, hats off to him, he found a gap in the market. Unfortunately I don't have many ER32 collets, I have tons of ER40, so I would have to buy a lot for that to get a decent range.
                                                    Michael-w
                                                    'tho the link was for ER25 collet blocks, they are available in ER40 too, for your 'tons of ER40 collets'
                                                    DaveD

                                                    #320775
                                                    John Reese
                                                    Participant
                                                      @johnreese12848

                                                      If you don't like handle twiddling you might consider something like this:

                                                      Kalamazoo Industries 5C collet indexing fixture

                                                      I believe there are Asian copies available. It indexes in 15 degree increments .

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