Ultrasonic cleaning

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Good morning all, I'm looking for some recommendations for ultrasonic cleaning fluids. I have a couple of old clocks that I periodically (every 5-6 years) would put in a cleaner then lubricate when they would not last the week on one wind up. This I could do at work before retirement.

I acquired a cleaner a few years ago, it has a fluid capacity of about 10litres/2 gallons. I've used various household cleaners diluted with water with varying degrees of success. The problem is drying the cleaned parts, rust could appear before I had dried the part and get protection on it!

So, what I am looking for is a low cost fluid that will perhaps leave a protective residue behind, is there such a thing?

John

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

That is one of the advantages of evaporust

It is non toxic and leaves a protective film and works on metals other than steel, but it is a little sticky so it may not suit clocks.

Neil

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I have posted before about a very good cleaner, 'Micro', It is an Aquous solution. Is it possible to search the postings? There you should find the address of the supplier who also does a sample bottle. it is a 2% solution and as for drying use a hair dryer which warms up parts to hand warm.

Clive

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

John MC, If you look above your introductory entry you will see Search For, put in ultrasonic cleaning, and click GO, I think there is some worthwhile reading there.

Ian S C

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

I am not sure what grot accumulates in clocks but I found that a teaspoon of citric acid powder (lemon juice) along with a dash of dishwashing liquid in 500ml of water in the ultrasonic cleaner is great for cleaning things ranging from used brass cartridge cases through to greasy model engine parts. They come out clean and shiny.

I usually have the domestic oven pre-warmed to a low setting (about 75°C) ready to accept the cleaned components after rolling them on absorbent kitchen paper. Wear latex gloves and spray light oil ( I use Inox MX3) if the parts are susceptible to rust.

* Danny M *

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

You could try dunking in metho as it is hydroscopic and pulls the moisture from the surface ..

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Have a look at advert on here Machine-dro or allendale-untrasonics a sister company both do ultrasonic cleaners and fluids, N connection just a satisfied customer always found them very helpful

John

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

What oil are you using that requires you to dismantle the clocks that often? Anything but genuine clock oil (the Swiss, Moebus is best) will oxidise fairly quickly and gum-up the works, especially "household lubricating oil" like 3-in-One. In fact most of the sound text books suggest that clocks need no lubrication.

Getting that 'gum' off the moving parts and especially the bushes in the clock plates where the arbours rotate is quite a problem. Are your clocks spring or weight driven? Because another difficulty is where someone has squirted 'any old oil' into the spring barrels. The proprietary solutions vary in ability to remove gum but as suggested – the Allendale soln. could be effective.

For restoration of old pocket watches, I make my own using about 10% v/v ammonia ["0.88"] in distilled water to which I add a few drops of surfactant such as washing-up liquid. When the parts are clean, 'sonicate' again in distlled water then place them on a clean sheet of paper and immediately dry them with a hair dryer and rusting shouldn't occur.

Apologies if the above is already well-known to you. There are many on-line articles covering this area.

Edited By Fowlers Fury on 23/09/2017 12:30:39

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Many thanks for the replies, I like the idea of a gentle warm in the oven after cleaning to dry off. What I need is something "neutral" that cleans the muck off the parts but does not touch the metal. I've seen an antique watched by ultrasonic cleaning, wouldn't run after cleaning, a watch specialist knew immediately what had been done. The cleaner had etched everything, it rattled after cleaning but it was very shiny!

I lubricate with "clock oil" or so it says on the bottle. There is definite evidence of oxidisation after a few years. Even though the clocks (spring driven) are in cases dust gets in. A good clean and a lube gets them going again.

John

[RobinParticipant @robin]

Well refined sperm whale braincase oil everytime.

I do have a little bottle of sperm whale oil, got it from some mad Norwegian, but I think it is only rendered fat not the good stuff

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

I served my apprenticeship with an old guy who fixed my watch and lubed it with sardeen oil one dinner break.

till works fine years later and never been touched since.

not bad for a 65 year old who was swinging a 14lb hammer one minute and fixed my watch the next.

As for cleaning fluid we use a liquid in our ASNU petrol injector tester that has a built in ultrasonic cleaner (modern injectors use down to a single micron tolerance theses days) don't know what it is as its under their own label but must be good.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Micro is used by the US Nuclear making industry, it cleans leaving no residue. It is highly recommended and I have often used it to clean optical prisms that cannot be dismantled. Cleans electronic boards, mainly the ones with soldered on components that are not affected by water but the end contacts get corroded.

It is economical a 2% solution. Does not affect powder coated parts but, prolonged immersion will affect anodising.

Clive

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

I've found that this recipe works well for clock cleaning. **LINK** It gives a nice bright finish to the brass parts.

You might find it difficult to get oleic acid but I've used cold pressed (extra virgin) olive oil to be a good substitute. It contains 60 to 70% oleic acid along with other fatty acids. It is important to make sure the oil is fully dissolved in the acetone before adding to the rest of the mixture.

Russell

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 23/09/2017 20:12:04:

I've found that this recipe works well for clock cleaning. **LINK** It gives a nice bright finish to the brass parts.

You might find it difficult to get oleic acid but I've used cold pressed (extra virgin) olive oil to be a good substitute. It contains 60 to 70% oleic acid along with other fatty acids. It is important to make sure the oil is fully dissolved in the acetone before adding to the rest of the mixture.

Russell

Rapeseed oil is particularly high in oleic acid.

Years ago my family used to moaned at me for buying cheap 'vegetable oil' (it was rapeseed but it only said so on the ingredients list) but I pointed out it was higher in all the 'good' oils than olive oil.

Now it's fashionable, more expensive than sunflower oil and you can buy it in bottles for a premium……

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

It reads as though the OP has a pretty large ultrasonic bath ! But a word to those with more modest sized 'baths. I ruined the original transducer in mine by foolishly loading it with trichlorethylene to degrease some small, m/cycle nuts & bolts. After enquiry, the manufacturers replied to the effect – "far too dense a liquid for a bath that size, only ever use aqueous solutions in your new one !"

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

I am surprised no one has commented on the practice of cleaning a clock without dismantling it, it is not a very good way to do it in one piece in my opinion.

It is generally the springs that get gummed up inside the barrels, and there is no way dunking it in a tank of anything will clean it properly, the spring must be removed to do the job right.

I have done plenty myself so speak from experience, I also design ultrasonic tanks for a living.

A general mild solution to use for cleaning the dismantled parts of a clock would be "Micro 90", I have also used an ammonia rich solution of "Horolene" or similar with good results in the past, do not expect the parts to come out polished and shiny, they will just come out as clean brass or steel. Also if you leave brass in too long, it comes out pink after the ammonia tries to leach out the zinc from the brass, dont ask me how I found out !

Most decent quality tanks will have heating built in, so when the parts come out they will be hot and they should flash dry fairly quickly. However a complete clock will not do this, it will retain moisture in all the places where it gets trapped, particularly the spring barrels.

Avoid using any ammonia based solutions on aluminium parts such as carburetors etc, that is unless you want to end up with a black one, dont ask me how I found that out either !

Phil

[James Wilkinson 3Participant @jameswilkinson3]

You have to completely dismantle the clock to clean it. I use this company to acquire my ultrasonic fluids: https://www.kemet.co.uk/products/cleaning/ultrasonic-cleaning-fluids. To clean a clock you got to take it apart completely, then clean the parts, then thoroughly dry, then assemble lubricating all necessary parts as you assemble. Some parts will need different lubes.

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Agreed I should dismantle the clocks to clean them. If my ultrasonic cleaning of the more or less complete mechanism doesn't restore the 8 day running then one of them will be disposed of and the other will go to our local clock and watch repairer for proper attention.

As has been pointed out, the cleaner is quite large so requires more fluid than the more modest sized models, I could be paying £50 – £100 to fill it up so I am looking for a much cheaper option.

In the past I have tried an ammonia based cleaner in it………………

John

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by John MC on 24/09/2017 08:45:23:

Agreed I should dismantle the clocks to clean them. If my ultrasonic cleaning of the more or less complete mechanism doesn't restore the 8 day running then one of them will be disposed of and the other will go to our local clock and watch repairer for proper attention.

As has been pointed out, the cleaner is quite large so requires more fluid than the more modest sized models, I could be paying £50 – £100 to fill it up so I am looking for a much cheaper option.

In the past I have tried an ammonia based cleaner in it………………

John

I've never tried cleaning a clock without dismantling it first. I don't think it's worth trying.

As regards the cost of the cleaning solution, the recipe I linked to above uses cheap household chemicals – perhaps two or three euro for five litres. Commercial solutions don't contain anything exotic they just cost more.

Russell

[lug lordParticipant @luglord]

I used to clean a lot of bga micro chips and 100% ipa alcohol solution is great to clean parts

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Well, I know nothing about clocks and the like, but do have a few handed down the family line; a 120 year old Grandfather clock, a 'Grandmother' clock, 80 years old, and a 95 year old Anniversary clock. I have had them around 45 years now . They all get cleaned between 8 and 10 years running, with no problems – in a mild ultrasonic bath, with plain white paraffin – I find that leaves a very thin oil behind that does not oxidise at all. I heat the bath to 35-40deg c and run the cleaner for 20 minutes. Works a charm…

Joe

[HughEParticipant @hughe]

My first job was with company that started in the watch and clock business. There were still a few old hands that grew up in the trade who used to give me friendly advice, I learnt a lot of useful engineering tricks from them. They recommended cleaning parts in a solution of distilled water, ammonia and soft soap. Never use household detergent as it contains other ingredients that stain brass and leave a residue, this was drummed into me using the 4×2 method!

Clock springs were always cleaned in a ultrasonic bath using a special fluid, which I can't remember the name of .

I obtain special ultrasonic cleaning fluid from my local chemical factors (Wessex) in Verwood East Dorset.

Hugh

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