Lathe bed marks – would you be happy to have this?

[mrbuilderParticipant @mrbuilder]

Hi Guys – have attached a few photos. If you were to purchase this lathe, obviously more too it than just this but… Just wondering whether marks on the lathe bed such as this would stop you?

The width of the front and back shears, total width across both and the thickness are within tolerances. The bed has also been hand scraped but obviously the removal wasn’t enough to remove these marks. So are they just cosmetic given my comment on tolerances or do they have an effect on performance? AND are these marks just caused by clumsy users over time!?

 

 

 

 

Edited By mrbuilder on 11/05/2017 11:14:59

[mrbuilderParticipant @mrbuilder]

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Nothing there that will affect the accuracy

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

They will add a bit of oil retention if anything. If the bed has been scraped as you say, the high spots from the displaced metal has been removed, so as JS said, nothing to worry about.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Depends a bit where they are and how much the asking price is.

Photo 3 seems to be at the end of the tailstock end so I guess that isn't going to matter much. As you say it's obviously been scraped and not reground so it sort of depends how good the scraper did his job.

Just looking at the photos there seems to be plenty of longitudinal marks where the saddle has move up and down which appear to be deeper than the scraped marks.(photo 1) so the scaping may be just an attempt at hiding damage and removing high spots rather than properly reconditioning the bed.

Generally it probably shows that the lathe has had a hard life so you should take it as a bit of an indicator.

Personally I would walk away unless you intend to get it reground or its really cheap but see what others think first.

regards Martin

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

If brand new, I wouldn't be happy. Else, I'd accept it, price obviously down a bit to reflect cosmetic damage.

Regards,

Richard.

[Nick HughesParticipant @nickhughes97026]

Looks like the typical damage caused when a Hacksaw is used (with a stationary chuck), to cut off parts held in the chuck.

Other than that it looks fine and would not affect the accuracy.

Nick.

[SteveIParticipant @stevei]

it is hard to see consistent scraping marks, they appear to be a bit random and not consistently over the whole bearing. That could be a trick of the light. If it has been hand scraped then the appearance could be because the bed is worn. What lathe is it?

perhaps you could show a picture of the whole bed? That way areas that are typically subject to less wear such as right next to the head stock and far end would be visible to compare against.

A simple way to answer if it is a real world issue or not is to do a turning test.

Steve

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

Posted by Nick Hughes on 11/05/2017 11:54:36:

Looks like the typical damage caused when Hacksaw has used it (with a stationary chuck), to cut off parts held in the chuck.

Other than that it looks fine and would not affect the accuracy.

Nick.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

That bed has not been hand scraped. it's been scratched up to make the gullible buyer think that it's been scraped.

Either talk the price down severely on account of the damage and the dishonest attempts to tart it up or walk away.

I bought a shaper that had been abused like that and I've also re-scraped the shaper, two lathes and a milling machine. So I know wherof I speak.

[ScrumpyParticipant @scrumpy]

If I saw this on a small lathe it would be a no no but on a mid to large lathe it would be go for it, I purchased a Boxford with marks on we're the chuck came of when in the local collage

[fivethou hammerParticipant @fivethouhammer12006]

I suppose it depends on whether you want a piece of workshop jewellery or a machine that will serve very adequately as an accurate workshop tool. Any machine with a few miles on the clock will show some marks or scratches, but nothing shown in your pictures will alter its accuracy one jot. That's an imperial jot……

I do agree that the marks and any other paint scratches are fodder for talking the price down and good luck if you do so, but if those marks are all that you would consider to be negative, I would buy it happily.

Maybe if you are able to let us know what the machine is, year etc… and how much is being asked for it, you would get help in assessing it's value.

Regards

Gary

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

If they're just saying it's damaged then fine but not as a "hand scraped" example, it looks more like hand scrapped.

Michael W

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Hand scratched might be a good term? I would be very careful that the apparent 'refurbisment' hides an underlying wear/accuracy issue.

I don't think I would touch it unless the overall accuracy was proven. It might be OK, but it might be a dog. Look for other signs of abuse, elsewhere, is my advice. I would expect you to find other abuse or considerable wear if you start to look deeper than those scratch marks.

[mrbuilderParticipant @mrbuilder]

Firstly, Hacksaw I do apologise for the confusion! haha…

What is it? A Myford ML7 from the 60s (I think?).

Posted by Mark Rand on 11/05/2017 12:36:01:

That bed has not been hand scraped. it's been scratched up to make the gullible buyer think that it's been scraped.

Indeed, I'm only a novice-amateur so still quite gullible until I start investigating things like this, but slowly learning I've attached a few more pics, does this confirm it definitely hasn't been hand scraped? I found it hard to delve through the pics I took finding some appropriate ones. Zoomed in on a couple hopefully it helps.

Posted by Martin Kyte on 11/05/2017 11:41:03:

Just looking at the photos there seems to be plenty of longitudinal marks where the saddle has move up and down which appear to be deeper than the scraped marks.(photo 1) so the scaping may be just an attempt at hiding damage and removing high spots rather than properly reconditioning the bed.

Generally it probably shows that the lathe has had a hard life so you should take it as a bit of an indicator.

Thanks yeah that's what I'm worried about. I noticed the longitudinal marks… Better view of those in the more recently uploaded pics.

Posted by SteveI on 11/05/2017 11:56:21:

it is hard to see consistent scraping marks, they appear to be a bit random and not consistently over the whole bearing. That could be a trick of the light. If it has been hand scraped then the appearance could be because the bed is worn. What lathe is it?

perhaps you could show a picture of the whole bed? That way areas that are typically subject to less wear such as right next to the head stock and far end would be visible to compare against.

A simple way to answer if it is a real world issue or not is to do a turning test.

Hopefully the few pics below may be better. Looks like some scratching/scraping over the whole length based on the photos I have. Unfortunately the lathe was semi-apart on viewing.

I'll have to give it some careful consideration – thanks guys! Thought provoking mix of comments.

 

 

 

 

Edited By mrbuilder on 11/05/2017 14:01:53

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

When you get a larger shot of that picture you can see it more clearly, when it's up close it just looked like emery buffing here and there, now you can see that it at least has the appearance of being scraped.

Having seen it like this, now i'd say i'd buy it. 

Michael W 

 

Edited By Michael-w on 11/05/2017 15:50:16

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by mrbuilder on 11/05/2017 13:50:31:

.

Michael W … Sorry, but I have to disagree with your assessment

Yes; It may have been 'hand scraped' … but not in any way that I would consider useful.

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Would it be an adequate test to mount a DTI on the saddle with the tip on the bed and then watch the needle whilst moving the saddle? The amount the needle bounces / fails to stay level along the length of the bed should indicate if there's a problem or not.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 11/05/2017 17:07:22:

Would it be an adequate test to mount a DTI on the saddle with the tip on the bed and then watch the needle whilst moving the saddle? The amount the needle bounces / fails to stay level along the length of the bed should indicate if there's a problem or not.

It is a lathe and a little up and down does not matter much.

Sideway movement or looseness does.

[SteveIParticipant @stevei]

Sorry to say Mark Rand and MichaelG are right. I would be very very surprised if this has been scraped by a professional scraper/machine re-builder. (Not one that would stay in business for long.) It is certainly not done by a competent professional or amateur.

Based on the photos I would say that John stevenson is also correct in that the "scraping" marks and dings are superficial and will not really effect the accuracy of the lathe. (They will affect how the lathe wears over time.) Rather the underlying wear in the bed is going to determine the accuracy and that is not easy to judge in the picture.

So in terms of the scrape marks and the dings a light stoning will remove any burrs. All those dings then become useful oil retaining pockets, you'll just have to be careful to keep the swarf out of them.

 

I don't know much about Myford lathes but I think the older all have soft beds and only much later were hardened beds available. This means you could get it scraped, or ground to sort out. Having said that depending on what your doing with it and your personal choices it may be fine.

 

Steve

Edited By SteveI on 11/05/2017 18:24:56

Edited By SteveI on 11/05/2017 18:28:43

[JonParticipant @jon]

Looks a step up from whats normally seen as a refurb being no more than a paint job.

The dinks are superficial, however I would do a sharp exit on that one, wear marks apparent on the sides and more than likely underside of shear rear.

Even if correct tolerance is on the saddle gib strips and moving it entire travel with no play or tightness it may well still be way out.
Looking side on it may still have a bow near chuck, certainly looking downwards and if could look underneath shears.
To correct that is more than a basic regrind more metal removal plus the "ive only took a couple of thou off" which often needs 30+ thou to correct the mishaps scraping in, seen loads 30 yrs ago when family biz owned a precision engineers.
Scraping your only looking at 2-3 thou anything mores a botch job. Not a lover of it though lost the knack doing it about 35 yrs ago. Its let down done properly is less surface area and can wear quicker than a pukka grind job. Same applies with a quick grind, you get what you pay for and to back that up never seen a DSG needing a regrind due to the quality and finish of the original grinding – looks polished.

Steer well clear.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

I honestly think, if I can get around whether the scraping is genuine, the dinked appearance, it could be the basis for a workable machine and a good solid bed at that, as well as a leadscrew. A few touches over with a diamond file could remove any burring and raising on the damaged areas that might affect the play on the table.

If the price is right and you want to make a lathe then go for it.

Michael W

[SteveIParticipant @stevei]

Michael,

I've no doubt those are scraping marks so in that sense they are genuine. However from the pictures the quality of the work is poor and does not present itself as a "genuine" effort to improve the lathe bed.

Again if the price is right I would not worry about it being rebuilt in to a perfectly adequate lathe bed. However that requires tools which the OP may not have and may not wish to invest.

Thanks,

Steve

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

This thread underlines why I'm wary about buying second-hand. Based on the photos, the expert opinion varies between 'no problem' and 'walk away'. No doubt there would be full agreement if the experts were able to see the lathe in the flesh and take test cuts. As it is, I'm still none the wiser.

Is there anything mrbuilder can do to prove that the bed really is bad as opposed to just looking suspicious? My guess is that a hard-worked lathe has been dished up for sale by someone semi-skilled like me. It could be a bargain or a con. What else should mrbuilder be looking for?

Dave

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

As I was one of the ones who suggested that I would probably walk away perhaps I could explain my reasoning a little more fully. I agree with those who say that the marks on the bed would not really affect the accuracy of the machine and if I already owned the machine or had it given to me I would not be bothered overmuch.

However my take on purchasing the machine is that there are many more lathes out there and I don't necessarily have to buy this one unless I am convinced. Basically you have to have a figure in mind as to what you want to pay and try to get the best value for your money.

I think the responses have answered your initial question and the dings on th ebed will not matter. What you have to pick up on is what they say about the general condition of the lathe. You have not mentioned a price so we cannot comment from that angle.

Have you had a look around at similar lathes and could you take a mate along to take a look. Taking someone else with you helps you stay realistic and not get 'star struck' with what is in front of you.

So to return to my original statement that 'I would think twice ', that comes not from a beleif that the lathe won't operate adequately but from the notion that I could probably do better elsewere. Personally I would be looking for an unrestored lathe that looks in good condition. You can always paint it and fix smaller items.

However you are the one with the dosh so it's up to you.

regards Martin

[Author]

Posts