Face mill prices

[lfoggyParticipant @lfoggy]

I am going to be milling a good few iron casting for my next project for which I plan to buy an indexable face mill. I want something around 60mm that will fit on a 22mm R8 spigot. It will probably see a fair bit of use. As with all tooling there is a range of quality avialable out there but in this case the price range seems particualrly wide. ARC have an unbranded 63mm face-mill for £18.60 and many other suppliers have similarly inexpensive examples. A similar looking facemill from Sandvik Coromant is £450 and other industrial brands are the same. That's over a 20-fold difference. I've been disapointed with cheap tools in the past and now try and stick to branded tools but really not sure which to purchase here.

Can anyone exaplin the practical difference across this price range?

Edited By lfoggy on 10/04/2020 17:23:09

[lfoggyParticipant @lfoggy]

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Make sure you are comparing like with like – body + arbor + inserts.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I was surprised when I saw what price ARC were selling there's for which was not a lot more than the likes of Banggood but the difference was considerable, the very cheap one was a poor fit on the arbor, inserts do not fit well and the supplied inserts as well as additional inserts from the same source were very poor. have a search for my postings about the poor Banggood ones on the forum. this is one

The ARC own branded ones fit the arbor very well, insets held correctly and their inserts perform a lot better. Sandvik or Sumimoto would no doubt be better but not 20 times better

This thread went with the Review I did in MEW

[Bruno TaylorParticipant @brunotaylor21701]

I have two indexable face mills. One about 40mm diameter and a second about 70mm. Both bought from RDG at reasonable prices and work extremely well on a variety of materials. I have bought spare tips from JB Cutting tools.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Can I state the obvious? If you don't want cheap tooling and don't want to pay £450, buy a quality used one, I've got several used branded face mills for less than an unbranded Chinese one.

[lfoggyParticipant @lfoggy]

Posted by Pete. on 10/04/2020 18:54:36:

Can I state the obvious? If you don't want cheap tooling and don't want to pay £450, buy a quality used one, I've got several used branded face mills for less than an unbranded Chinese one.

Err, I did not say that I didn't want to pay for a new industrial quality tool. I was just asking if people had insight into the difference in functionality across this price range. My experience of second hand tooling is that it is a lottery. Personally I prefer to buy new for this reason….

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

It sounds as though the £18 tool could be a real bargain, I shall give it a go, if it performs satisfactorily I shall have a smile on my face, if it doesn’t then £18 wasn’t too much of a loss, I would feel robbed if the £450 one gave a similar performance. A bad face mill will be a fly cutter and they really are cheap.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 10/04/2020 19:47:11

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

The main differences are the material used for the body and the accuracy of the insert seats. High production cutters require higher precision to ensure equal cutting on all inserts. I was looking at a YouTube video recently on a bang good cutter and the seats were a mile out from one another. Having said that some willl be better than others. For what we do it probably has little effect other than wear on one tip at a time.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Mike Poole on 10/04/2020 19:42:42:

It sounds as though the £18 tool could be a real bargain,

Plus the arbor plus the inserts.
Looking at the ARC site I inevitably also saw their 25mm insert endmills. It is often suggested that using an endmill has the advantage that it is less sensitive to tramming errors. So when would a big facemill be the better solution for and amateur not in a tearing hurry to remove metal in bulk.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by lfoggy on 10/04/2020 19:09:19:

Posted by Pete. on 10/04/2020 18:54:36:

Can I state the obvious? If you don't want cheap tooling and don't want to pay £450, buy a quality used one, I've got several used branded face mills for less than an unbranded Chinese one.

Err, I did not say that I didn't want to pay for a new industrial quality tool. I was just asking if people had insight into the difference in functionality across this price range. My experience of second hand tooling is that it is a lottery. Personally I prefer to buy new for this reason….

I don't understand how price would effect their functionality, they both have the same function.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

But they may not all function the same. I have mentioned here and detailed in the other threads I linked to that the very cheap don't function that well due to loose fit on arbor, poor position of inserts & poor inserts. The ARC ones are a marked step up and the named brand are likely to be a step further put probably less noticable and certainly the step is not proportional to the step in price.

Industry needs to be able to swap a set of tips and know that the tool can go back into the ATC and not need resetting to cut to the same micron accuracy. so fit and spec of inserts will be high. They cut at far greater rates than us so fit onto arbor will be better and they will also use far more exotic materials for added vibration damping and rigidity, even the screws that hold the inserts will be better spec, etc.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I only have the ARC 25mm 2 insert end mill at the moment and there is nothing I would pick up on quality wise. The R8 fit is excellent as is the fit of the inserts. I have their ferrous and non ferrous inserts and both perform very well indeed.

For the quality the price is amazing and for the work I do on a small SX2 I would gain nothing spending hundreds on top brands.

No connection to ARC just a very satisfied customer.

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

I bought a 50mm and a 63mm one and R8 arbor from ARC after I saw the review in MEW. The quality is superb and belies the low price. I also bought some of the ground and polished inserts and they too are excellent.

The only problem now is the lack of availability due to the pesky virus.

Doug

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Doug, you do know ARC is open again for online or telephone orders…?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Ron, Ketan has sold out of most of the items, not sure when new stock is due.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Jason I was getting an order together but most of it can wait.

[colin vercoeParticipant @colinvercoe57719]

consider the insert shape size and type as some only have two cutting edges, so become expensive to use.

I had a sandvik 63mm diameter with 5 triangular tips, the tips were held in place by wedge action so no location pin or screw this would take standard turning inserts as well as the milling inserts which are half the price of milling inserts, you might find a second hand one out there somewhere

[Martin Shaw 1Participant @martinshaw1]

I bought a 50mm R8 one from Cutwel last year, I think they were doing a deal, which has inserts with 8 cutting edges. I have in honesty only used it once but it did all I wanted. I can't now remember what I paid but it won't have been silly money. I would have bought from Arc but it was just before they started stocking them.

Regards

Martin

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I would go for one of these 80mm shell mills with the square SEHT 12 inserts. The actual swept diameter is more like a 63mm, as the inserts are at 45 degrees, and it cannot work as a shoulder mill. The R8 arbor size is 27mm. Inserts are very easy to get hold of in steel, ss and aluminium grades and the 45 degree approach makes for easy cutting. I have an 80 and a 63mm in this type with Chinese aluminium inserts and Maydown steel inserts.

**LINK**

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I forgot to mention, whatever shell mill you get, make sure the inserts are freely available. A lot of Sandviks use proprietary inserts which are expensive and difficult to get hold of. SEHT, SEKT, APMT and APKT types are easy to obtain.

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