Can you get left handed 10″ coarse files?

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

If you file at the wrong angle you get trenches in your metal as the teeth settle into grooves. I guess most people have seen this but left-handers see it more often.

I've spend 5 days using a file at a bench peg i.e hold the file in one hand, the work-piece in the other, and rest the piece against a sacraficial wooden bench peg. In this mode of filing it is difficult to file left-handed while avoiding trenches. The issue is related to the angle that the file teeth have been cut at. Look at most files from the top and the first cut will slope from bottom left to top right.

Ideally I'd like to find files that slope the other way but I suspect they are not available.

Are there any left-handers out there who have found files that minimise the issue? I have found that the Nicholson Magicut files are less prone to the issue… but you can't get them in UK anymore and they only make them in large sizes. You can get files cut at different angles; brass files are cut at a steeper angle, lead files seem to be at zero angle. But, at many pounds a pop, I can't afford too many experiments in the quest for nice files.

I think there is a market out there for some enterprising retailer who has a good relationship with a file maker

I said 10" coarse file in the title because this isn't about clock pivot files – I have one of those but it is a little slow. However, I would ideally like left handed versions of all files.

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 19/11/2016 10:44:54

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 19/11/2016 10:45:17

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

I’m not talking about left handed pivot files!

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

power file is your friend ! I'm right handed and i get ruts with Nicholson magicut

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The problem may be in the way you are using the file. The common way to use a 10" file to file a flat surface is to move it straight along the job, held parallel to the job and not at an angle. To file a surface wider than the file, the file is moved across the surface, left to right, or right to left, on the back stroke by about half a file width. You work your way across the surface in this manner. Once you have made several passes across the whole surface, you turn the job around 90 degrees and repeat the process. And so on.

Using this technique I think it should make no difference which hand is holding the handle and which is holding the end of the file?

Think of the way a die filing machine works: the file moves up and down in a straight reciprocating motion, with the file held straight up vertical. Same sort of motion as a reciprocating power hacksaw.

The only time I can think of holding a file at an angle to the direction of motion is when knocking the black mill scale off a piece of black mild steel and the file is also held at an angle in the vertical plane so the edge scours the scale off. (Although never say never, there are surely times when filing oddball shapes where holding teh file aat an angle to the direction of stroke is a needs must situation.)

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

PS, not sure why you are using a bench peg and holding the job with one hand? You need to have two hands on the file, one on handle one on the nose. So job need to be secured in a vice before filing. If it is a particularly thin piece of work, small clamping devices can be made to put in the vice. ISTR one was in MEW in the past two years or three or so. Neil? Or you can glue the fiddly bit to a larger chunk of metal and hold that in the vice and then melt the glue with a torch afterwards.

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Jack I suspect that it is not the file that is the problem but one of technique. I would bet that you are sliding the file sideways as you file instead of square on, this will cause the effect you are complaining about. Being a non left hander I can only sympathise with you. I bet there are things you find easier to do than me. I am afraid that we all have to use what God has given us. I am told that almost 20% of the population is left handed you would have thought that someone would have taken that into consideration when designing things. I wish you the best of luck and just try modifying you filing technique.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Let me change context a little. The majority of roughing out of this was done with a Magicut. Tricky to do this in a vice, holding the file with both hands – bench peg achieve the results quickest.

My point is that right-handers have more range of filing angle than left-handers when filing on a bench peg, and I believe this is due to angle of cut on teeth. If I file right handed then I can slide the file forward a bit rather than just go straight across, and this slide has it's uses. If I file left handed I have to go straight across or draw the file back towards me slightly which is a less natural stroke.

[norman valentineParticipant @normanvalentine78682]

Being left handed myself I can understand Jack's problem. I think that left hand files would be wonderful but prohibitively expensive. I get grooves in my work when I hold the file in the natural position. I get around this by changing my direction of cut at frequent intervals whilst cursing file makers. This works for me. On one heavy filing job (shaping the frames for a 7 1/4" loco, 3/16" thick, done as a pair) I used a "Dreadnought" file, this was not affected by the direction of cut but needed a lot of pressure to achieve a cut but took a lot of material with each stroke.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I'm sure you are right, Hopper.

But i can't remember the details aro find it in the index..

Tubal Cain's thin piece vice is a good design.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Posted by norman valentine on 19/11/2016 11:55:06:

Being left handed myself I can understand Jack's problem.

Thanks Norman. A problem shared… (I have a few more problems but I'll keep those off the forum for now).

There really is a problem here. Most tools, you _can_ get left handed versions. Occasionally you can't; I was looking at bacho 'ergonomic' wood-saw handles in Yandles last week and they are totally unusable for us minority. Mind you, not much wrong with a nice wooden handle so no great loss.

Magicut certainly cut differently and I can recommend them for left handers. Just wish there were more alternatives. I'm very tempted to try making some.

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

Weld a tang on the other end and cut the original off….

That'll be a japanese file .

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

There are several styles of heavy-duty files that should be ambidextrous:

**LINK**

https://goo.gl/images/thfcAA

MichaelG.

[JonParticipant @jon]

Personally as a once professional filer it will make no odds whether left or right handed, use the file correctly and feel for whats happening. No book will ever teach you that.

By that you do not just push the file square on which often leads to look alike chaff marks or gliding off following the angle of teeth cut, that said draw file no problem with a 10" bastard.

Job has to be held rigid not against a peg free to move around. Considering its got a double taper and top angle looking at an hour from square steel to within a thou, knock off 1/4hr if lesser tolerance 5 thou.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Posted by Hacksaw on 19/11/2016 13:44:37:

Weld a tang on the other end and cut the original off….

That'll be a japanese file .

You had me going over to my file to decide if that would work!

Maybe you knew: the picture is a Japanese chisel

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by jaCK Hobson on 19/11/2016 11:41:36:

Let me change context a little. The majority of roughing out of this was done with a Magicut. Tricky to do this in a vice, holding the file with both hands – bench peg achieve the results quickest.

That thing is tiny!!! Wouldn't a smaller file work better? And some kind of filing jig to hold it?

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

I misled people. My example is obviously not 'engineering'. The scenario here is closer to jewelry, but everyone uses the same files so I should be able to ask engineers. I agree that if I have something in a vice or jig and I have two hands on the file then left handed isn't such an issue (but it is still an issue). But I believe there are valid scenarios where a left handed file would make a significant difference.

All these were roughed out with a 12" Magicut then tweaked with a 4 cut 6". Developing the ability to adjust the form of the tool to the immediate requirements is probably important (I don't have the experience to comment) and you would need too many jigs.

[JonParticipant @jon]

If your doing about 8 to 10 I would make a specific jig up, maybe two. If one or two just use a wooden V clamp in vice, Purdey scarf pins done that way and 1/4 the thickness similar length.

First point of call one working edge.

[Richard S2Participant @richards2]

Those examples you're making look like 'Graver' tools?.

I'm also a 'Leftie' , but have to confess that I don't experience the problem. It may be that I only have 50plus year old Files of various Shapes/ Cut grades (don't ask me what types), a small set of Rifflers and Saw Files. I also always use both hands by finding a way to hold the work piece. Good bit of fine filing work anyway Jack.

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