1960’s Car Steering Wheel Taper Angle

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

As per the title really – does anyone know what the taper angle is inside a car steering wheel? The taper is adjacent to the splines. I'm assuming it's some kind of standard.

I'm making a shaft to fit on an old 1962 MGB steering wheel, and want to machine a matching taper.

Is there a good method of determining taper if it's not a standard?

Thanks.

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Hi DR-

Measure both diameters with your vernier caliper. Subtract smaller dia from larger dia & this gives you the taper per inch.

regards

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Is there a good method of determining taper if it's not a standard?

If you fail with the above, you could make a moulding (core), then machine off the end to allow measurement with a digital angle measurer (such as THIS&nbsp?

A ‘cling film’ plug of epoxy, body filler or such-like would likely suffice – to prevent things glueing together.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Oldiron on 26/03/2021 14:05:31:

Hi DR-

Measure both diameters with your vernier caliper. Subtract smaller dia from larger dia & this gives you the taper per inch.

regards

How does that work?

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Dr_GMJN on 26/03/2021 13:58:41:

As per the title really – does anyone know what the taper angle is inside a car steering wheel? The taper is adjacent to the splines. I'm assuming it's some kind of standard.

I'm making a shaft to fit on an old 1962 MGB steering wheel, and want to machine a matching taper.

Is there a good method of determining taper if it's not a standard?

Thanks.

I dont know of where you might find published details of what was used on an MGB but even when you know the taper angle (not too difficult to measure if you have the steering column) determining the spline details will be much harder.

(Did you mean 'on' a steering wheel or in?)

Ian P

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Don't you have to know the distance apart of the large and small diameters?

Martin

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Thanks guys.

The taper is set within a cast external boss, so I can't get access to measure it with verniers.

I suppose I could make some dividers out of card and push them into the taper, then measure with a protractor.

I could also do it by trial and error with some scrap.

I did try to estimate the angle, but the machined taper I've ended up with only contacts at one end.

I don't need to measure the splines – I'll be using Loctite to secure, but I want to maximise contact area (BTW its for a lathe hand-turning wheel, not far a car!)

ML7 Hand Crank / Wheel? | Model Engineer (model-engineer.co.uk)

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Posted by Oldiron on 26/03/2021 14:05:31:

Hi DR-

Measure both diameters with your vernier caliper. Subtract smaller dia from larger dia & this gives you the taper per inch.

regards

Not sure about that – even if I could get access to measure them!

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Might be changing the subject a little, but…

That woodrim steering wheel appears to be a good quality one and whilst I'm all for having a smart looking workshop it looks a little over specified for a mandrel handle. The main point is that it will definitely have a commercial value especially if it has some age. Steering wheels from some 60s (not just exotics/Ferarri's) cars fetch four figures.

Ian P

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Posted by Ian P on 26/03/2021 15:24:28:

Might be changing the subject a little, but…

That woodrim steering wheel appears to be a good quality one and whilst I'm all for having a smart looking workshop it looks a little over specified for a mandrel handle. The main point is that it will definitely have a commercial value especially if it has some age. Steering wheels from some 60s (not just exotics/Ferarri's) cars fetch four figures.

Ian P

Thanks Ian. My late dad fitted it to the MGB in the ‘60’s. It’s one of the unique things I remember about it while being driven around on holiday and to Silverstone in the ‘70’s. When we restored the car in ‘88/‘89, we re-fitted the original wheel. I bought a Moto-Lita wheel for it, but never liked it, so once again fitted the original.

My dad always said it needed more rivets to hold the wood to the rim, because of the risk of splintering in a crash. I think there was a standard or something that it didn’t comply with. Having said that, the E-Type wheel has no rivets at all.

Anyway, I won’t be selling it, so might as well use it for something useful. I might even re-fit it to the MG at some point. The method of converting it to a hand wheel I’m using, deliberately doesn’t involve any modifications at all. Based on the test I did with it yesterday, I doubt it even needs Loctite if I can get the taper right.

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Looks like one sold for £225 on EBay recently. No rivets at all in that one though.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

A fairly effective way of measuring hard to reach tapers uses a pair of nicely fitted concentric cylinders for internal tapers or concentric tubes for external ones.

Smaller one a little larger than the small end of the taper, larger one a little smaller than the big end of the taper.

Technique is to slide the small one out until it contacts the wall of the taper then bring the big one down until it too contacts the taper. Make sure they a in line with the axis of the taper and lock the pair together.

Given the diameters of the cylinders or bores of the tubes its possible to calculate the taper angle from the distance that the smaller cylinder extends from the larger one.

I'm unconvinced that its sufficiently accurate to determine any random taper but plenty good enough to confirm something with a sensible fraction of an angle or slope per unit length.

If the end of the taper housing is flat and known to be normal to the shaft axis a high quality version seating on that flat with using small and large disk ended probes can me made good enough to handle random tapers.

Clive

 

Edited By Clive Foster on 26/03/2021 16:41:32

[John BaronParticipant @johnbaron31275]

Posted by Dr_GMJN on 26/03/2021 16:01:06:

Posted by Ian P on 26/03/2021 15:24:28:

Might be changing the subject a little, but…

That woodrim steering wheel appears to be a good quality one and whilst I'm all for having a smart looking workshop it looks a little over specified for a mandrel handle. The main point is that it will definitely have a commercial value especially if it has some age. Steering wheels from some 60s (not just exotics/Ferarri's) cars fetch four figures.

Ian P

Thanks Ian. My late dad fitted it to the MGB in the ‘60’s. It’s one of the unique things I remember about it while being driven around on holiday and to Silverstone in the ‘70’s. When we restored the car in ‘88/‘89, we re-fitted the original wheel. I bought a Moto-Lita wheel for it, but never liked it, so once again fitted the original.

My dad always said it needed more rivets to hold the wood to the rim, because of the risk of splintering in a crash. I think there was a standard or something that it didn’t comply with. Having said that, the E-Type wheel has no rivets at all.

Anyway, I won’t be selling it, so might as well use it for something useful. I might even re-fit it to the MG at some point. The method of converting it to a hand wheel I’m using, deliberately doesn’t involve any modifications at all. Based on the test I did with it yesterday, I doubt it even needs Loctite if I can get the taper right.

Stuff it with Plasticine inside some cling film or a plastic bag ! Though it would be much easier to use a wood plug and a nut and washer through the middle.

This is how I did mine ! It is an old pulley from a washing machine. !

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Measure internal taper by dropping a ball into the taper and measure to it from a face then do the same again with a different diameter ball. A bit of maths and you have the angle.

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Could you not fill the boss with a bit of casting material – plaster of Paris, silicone rubber or casting resin – after a light coat of the appropriate release agent.

Let it set, pull out the casting, and you have an exact copy of the thing you want to make.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Peter Cook 6 on 26/03/2021 18:37:23:

Could you not fill the boss with a bit of casting material – plaster of Paris, silicone rubber or casting resin – after a light coat of the appropriate release agent.

Let it set, pull out the casting, and you have an exact copy of the thing you want to make.

See third post in the thread?

[Maurice TaylorParticipant @mauricetaylor82093]

Hi, According to Motalita website taper is 8 degrees and 9.96mm long.

Maurice

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

The posh way of measuring female tapers is to use 2 different size ball bearings, one just bigger than the small end, and one just smaller then the big end. Drop them in in turn and measure the height from some convenient datum, then some trigonometry. Of course if you don't have a convenient datum it won't work.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Measure diameters at both ends, and the thickness of the hub, ie. length of taper. Visualise a triangle with a base the same length as the taper, an opposite at right angles that's half the diameter difference.

Divide opposite length by base length ('adjacent' side) and find the arctan of the result.

That's the angle for your compound slide.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Maurice Taylor on 26/03/2021 19:39:20:

Hi, According to Motalita website taper is 8 degrees and 9.96mm long.

Maurice

Yes, I found that, but ringing practice took precedence over posting here

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Thanks all. It’s a very short taper and I found it impossible to measure repeatably, also because it’s so difficult to get to. In the end I did it by trial and error – 8 degrees set on the top slide fitted best, which corresponds I think to the info posted here.

On a slightly related question – on the ML7, how can the top slide be set to cut low angled conical faces on workpieces? By that I mean almost in line with the cross-slide, say 5-10 degrees off? I’m sure I’m missing something obvious and simple, but the top slide on mine can only be rotated by a limited angle from being perpendicular to the cross-slide, and it can’t be mounted almost in line because the hand wheel clashes with the cross-slide.

Cheers.

[Maurice TaylorParticipant @mauricetaylor82093]

Hi, Search forum for “ml7 top slide angle limitations “. It appeared on the forum on 11/03/21.

Maurice

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

Thanks. I was wanting to put some shallow domes on some cylinder caps.

I did get around it yesterday on another job by undoing the bolts and using a clamp on the repositioned top slide, but it was a bit sketchy, and of course the handwheel still clashes.

[David SeniorParticipant @davidsenior29320]

I have an Automobile Engineer's Reference Book from 1956 which gives the taper as 3-1/2" per foot on dia, or 1 in 3.43, or 16° 35' 41" included angle. So I guess your 8° per side is close enough!

Dave

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