By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale Jan 24th

My Toyo ML1

This little beauty will be a work in progress as I add to it.

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
elixir oliver28/01/2015 12:08:14
15 forum posts
11 photos

No worries Mike,

Of course I don't mind, it was kind of address to anyone can give advice. I am really just a rookie here.

Perhaps I should remove the @ someone in the next message. It's an open forum anyway wink.

btw, I'm quite impressed Pete was mentioning boring it out to 9mm - 10mm. yes Well, that goes to experience.

Mike, or Pete. Do you suggest I bore that with a lathe? I supposed anyone with a big enough chuck could do it.

Cheers

Michael Gilligan28/01/2015 12:56:12
avatar
17034 forum posts
756 photos
Posted by elixir oliver on 28/01/2015 12:08:14:

Do you suggest I bore that with a lathe? I supposed anyone with a big enough chuck could do it.

.

Yes, bore it in the lathe

The Toyo should be adequate if you can mount a suitably sized block of wood or plastic [do you have a faceplate for it?]

... Just bore a recess in the block and push the handwheel into it.

MichaelG.

.

P.S. ... No offence taken, but I do prefer to be called Michael.

elixir oliver29/01/2015 12:37:11
15 forum posts
11 photos

Michael sounds better actually. My apology .

That was a good idea. However, I haven't got a toolpost laugh. I'll have to find a machinist somewhere here.

Now I wonder why you would want two lathe blush

By the way, I'm in Australia.

I tried to take out the drill chuck today, wedge a piece of timber behind the chuck and whack it with a mallet (By the way, is that the right way of removing the chuck?). The tailstock spindle slides out, so I just spin the rest of the barrel out. Now the chuck is still attached to the spindle.

image.jpg

Michael Gilligan29/01/2015 14:11:07
avatar
17034 forum posts
756 photos
Posted by elixir oliver on 29/01/2015 12:37:11:

I tried to take out the drill chuck today, wedge a piece of timber behind the chuck and whack it with a mallet (By the way, is that the right way of removing the chuck?). The tailstock spindle slides out, so I just spin the rest of the barrel out. Now the chuck is still attached to the spindle.

image.jpg

No promises, but: That looks rather like it might be a "self-ejecting" barrel.

Try putting it back together and winding the barrel back ... it may eject the drill chuck.

... If that doesn't work before it all starts to feel wrong, stop, and we'll think again.

MichaelG.

Pete Gilbert 129/01/2015 20:36:58
avatar
33 forum posts
10 photos

Yes, it's a self ejecting type, but I had to 'encourage' mine because it was a bit tight. So I used an open end 13mm spanner placed over the back of the chuck taper and then angled it towards the lathe chuck so that it pushed the little chuck away from the tailstock. I then gave it an enthusiastic thump with the heel of my hand and it popped out. From then on it has worked well.

We shouldn't be hammering this little chuck into it's taper by the way, just a quick slide in to wedge it into the taper is enough. Although mine takes a 7mm drill of, I would use very light drilling pressure to avoid stalling the spindle.

Yes, your handwheel is almost fubared, with a domestic electric drill badly by the looks of it. It definitely needs to be bored and sleeved, then a fresh M6 can be tapped through.

((LOL! Forget "Through A Glass Darkly" Let's hope someone publishes "With A Domestic Electric Drill, Badly" !! )) face 20

Here's a toolpost fron Axminster Tools that wil probably suit as it's for the Proxxon. I think that's the current, rebranded, updated, (haha smile p ), version of the ML210.

I'd really like to have a quick release tool post and tool holders. Maybe later as I'm really skint after xmas..

elixir oliver31/01/2015 11:54:25
15 forum posts
11 photos

I was expecting the same, I just tap it with the gentlest force and the barrel slides out a bit whilst the rest being held back by the tailstock bolt inside the tailstock. Affraid that it will damage any other threading or possible fasteners I just unscrew the entire barrel out. I guess I'll make another attempt later on after repairing the tailstock handwheel.

Pete, I am wondering if there is anything missing on my tailstock.

I include the snapshot here

image.jpg

image.jpg

I replace the tailstock bolt with a paintbrush just for an illustration.

I am wondering if there's supposed to be a bearing, spacer, or bushing apart from the tailstock handwheel.

and is there anything else behind the space of the retaining ring, or in front of the retaining ring since I only have the handwheel that screws into the bolt (paintbrush).

>> On the side, I met a friendly machinist today who is also an electrician repairing coffee machine. He is happy to do the boring and threading for me. And he also happen to know this Toyo lathe laugh.

So, I'm really stoked as he seems to be very passionate about lathe.

He is the one inquiring if there's any bearing on the tailstock. I'm not sure if the ML-1 manual will go this far in detail about the tailstock assemblage. I am wondering if bearing, or spacer can be added to improve the performance.

I had a look at the toolpost at Axminster, and I try to find it here in Australia, it turns out they only have the same one that Pete bought surprise. The one that comes with the compound slide. It's no good for me since I have minimum machining skill and machines to do any adjustment.

I might have to get the one from Axminster, although I am wondering how would it sit on the T-Slot cross slide.

is is just a nut on the T-slot, or some sort of bar, or ring. I don't know.

Have a good weekend.

Warmest greeting from Australia,

Oliver

Bazyle31/01/2015 17:10:54
avatar
5697 forum posts
208 photos

Oliver, Is the picture above showing the back of the barrel still in the body of the tailstock or after the barrel was taken out? It looks like what is still in the hole is the 'plug that is normally hard up against the circlip. Show us a picture of all the other bits ie the handle and screw etc. Whether there is something missing depends a bit on what the screw looks like as it should have a flange on it that pushes against a plug that is held in by that circlip.

If the screw goes into a thread in the back of the barrel which is the normal design all you need is to put a shin bar into that hole against the back of the taper and tap it repeatedly, perhaps with some rusty bolt release liquid in there. It also might help to put it in the freezer for an hour then quickly heat the outside with a paint striper gun while tapping the inserted bar.

Later once freed you should always be able to release a taper by retracting the barrel which results in the screw pusing against the back of the taper. however some taper are cut short so the screw doesn't meet them. Note which ones have this problem and put in a litte spacer each time you use that tool. What is more common is the tang on the taper means it is exjected too soon so pwople then cut off the back of the taper, but can cut off too much.

Edited By Bazyle on 31/01/2015 17:16:43

Pete Gilbert 131/01/2015 19:06:47
avatar
33 forum posts
10 photos

Oliver, that thing inside the tailstock is a brass bush/thrust washer and that's all there is to it. It stays on one side of the circlip and stops movement in one direction and the handwheel does the other. Nice and simple, and even if we break the circlip I'm sure it'll be a stock size.

tailstock strip down.jpg

Separated. The handwheel turns this coarse left hand thread.

tailstock slider.jpg

Here's my recommendation for your stuck chuck. (let's not forget that this is a micro lathe and the casr iron parts could be damaged by heavy handed hammering smile o )

Soak the drill chuck and tailstock slider in whatever easing oil you have overnight at the very least. And, if you feel like it, apply a flame to the slider to heat it up, not to red hot, but hot enough so that water evaporates instantly.

Then, re-assemble your tailstock without the handwheel. Use a couple of M6 nuts and lock them together on the thread at the back. Then, wind back a bit of pressure, as if to pull the slider away from the chuck with your 10mm spanner, then put a 17 or 16mm spanner behind the chuck. Use that to lever against the chuck and tap it with a hammer at the same time.

You could also try a brass drift and a few good hefty taps at the back of the chuck.

If that doesn't work realitively easily, you'll need to make up something that looks like a ball joint splitter out of steel, which will apply more pressure as it's also a wedge shape which you will have to tap in to the join before tapping it sideways. Once again, beware ot damaging the cast iron tailstock body.

-------------

And this is my original toolpost.

original toolpost.jpg

There's an M5 machine screw through from the top and the heavy sleeved 'T' slot thingy measures just under 7mm at the 'neck' and has flats machined to 14mm wide on the 16mm flange. The 7mm 'neck' is 5mm long, so it's actually 2mm clear of the saddle once locked by the screw. The fat part of this one is just under 10mm to suit the hole in the post.

I'm certain that the proxxon one will be close to these sizes, and if slightly bigger, any alterations shouldn't be a problem since you've found a friendly machinist.


smiley

Michael Gilligan31/01/2015 22:55:04
avatar
17034 forum posts
756 photos

Oliver,

Further to Pete's excellent advice ... here's another possible approach:

Remove the barrel, as per your first photo.

Find a short length of Brass rod [with a nice flat end], that's a close sliding fit down the screw-thread.

... The rod should only need to stick out about 20mm [*], and can be held in place with a lump of BlueTack.

Hold the barrel [with chuck pointing to the stars] and strike down firmly onto some immoveable object.

... this should knock out the taper without damaging anything except the end of the rod.

MichaelG.

.

[*] That's assuming your reflexes are quick enough devil.

... if you are worried, use a longer rod.

elixir oliver01/02/2015 13:04:18
15 forum posts
11 photos

I couldn't thank you all enough. All this I bet is way better thumbing through the manual.

For Pete thank you for taking apart your tailstock, the good pictures, and of course your detailed explaination. Cheers.

and Michael for even more usful tips. I am happy to see this advices keep flowing in, or out, whichever way you prefer wink

I lubricate and knock apart (gently) what I assume was part of the cast iron body of the tailstock >> it is the Flange.

The brass part which completes the tailstock assembly.

image.jpg

I was lucky not to have to use any other trick other than WD40. but I'll keep in mind that heatgun, Blue Tack, or the fridge. I assume it will comes in handy.

From the photo above, what I couln't show is the bolt which holds the barrel, and the handwheel. They are with the machinist. I will tell him too that the flange in question has been found laugh.

For the tool post, I know how it holds together now. Almost tempted to get it machined than buying and shipped here. see how I go with the handwheel and take it trom there.

I found a link for the Quick change Tool Post which peter might be interested. Yes, Christmas does drain my pocket too, but not the appetite. I'm happy to just get it running properly first.

Cheers,

Oliver

elixir oliver01/02/2015 13:09:31
15 forum posts
11 photos

Pete,

The 'bolt' with the left hand thread looks exactly with what I have, just different colour laugh. Mine is brownish of the rust, but detail is still sharp.

Michael,

That Blue Tack can't be ignored, when I knock the spacer out, it actually flew off to the floor surprise. Yes, need rubber mat or some sort.

Pete Gilbert 101/02/2015 23:34:34
avatar
33 forum posts
10 photos

Heh, those are way too expensive for aluminium parts. In my humble opinion. Why can't they just make 'em in mild steel? It'll last longer than the ally for starters and it should be cheaper as they won't need anidozing.

At Adaero Precision, we make our own work holding fixtures and vice jaws for milling , when normal plain or step vice jaws aren't suitable and special chucks and collets for turning. And I often complain when a fixture gets made in ally. Yes it's easier to machine, and we do install helicoil inserts to the threads, but the clamping faces don't last too long and we have to make another.

But yes, if all you need is a basic tool post, a made up one is super simple. in the near future, I intend to buy or make up a mini sliding vice for small milling jobs. I may even take my saddle to work and drill/ream a few dowel holes for positioning accuracy.

Looking at the pic of my tool post, it's dimensions in that view are as follows:

40 x 40 mm and 35mm across

The cut out starts at 16mm from the base is 16mm high (under the screws) and 10mm deep. Presumably for 10mm tool steel.

At the back is an 8mm through hole, 26mm up from the base, 6mm in from the back edge and paralell to the cutout. This has two short screws for clamping round shank boring bars or maybe as cigarrette holder or whatever.

Hope that helps Oliver

The central hole for the 'T' slot bolt is by no means a close fit on the bolt and no precision should be imagined when adjusting the post by this means. wink 2

- - -

Unfortunately I just measured the eccentricity of my main chuck centering (with a dial micrometer borrowed from work) and found an average 0.15mm run out at the workpiece! It's the chuck and not the spindle, so I need to think how I'm going to sort it out. I knew it was out from the first time got it home and turned something, but now I know just how bad it is.

I shall have to correct it before I go much further, as one of my tight tolerance requirements for this lathe is turning parts for propeller adapters for my RC planes. And with a prop rotating at 10000 rpm or more, any imbalances must be minimised.

Hmm, I really need a collet holder for increased accuracy.

Michael Gilligan02/02/2015 06:50:48
avatar
17034 forum posts
756 photos
Posted by Pete Gilbert 1 on 01/02/2015 23:34:34:

I shall have to correct it before I go much further, as one of my tight tolerance requirements for this lathe is turning parts for propeller adapters for my RC planes. And with a prop rotating at 10000 rpm or more, any imbalances must be minimised.

Hmm, I really need a collet holder for increased accuracy.

.

Pete,

Remember that, although collets are very convenient, there are other ways of achieving concentricity:

  • Start with oversize material, and turn everything at one setting [i.e. do not remove the work from the chuck until the job is complete].
  • Turn between centres ... for ultimate accuracy, turn between dead centres.
  • Use Shellac, on a 'Wax Chuck' [centre the work whilst the Shellac is still warm].

One or more of these methods can be adopted/adapted to suit almost any small turning job.

For some inspiration; have a look around this 'Adventures in Watchmaking' site.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/02/2015 06:52:42

elixir oliver02/02/2015 08:33:03
15 forum posts
11 photos

Just struck me that this is a RC enthusiast forum excuse my ignorance. Turns out to be quite a few fine folks in this forum, just like in woodworking (my trade).

I always like RC planes, but as a kid they were the luxury in toys world. Owning one was like having a Bentley.

But, I grow up, thats good news.

I watched 'Hector and the search for Happiness' last night and they were a snip of them playing RC aeroplane.

Guess if the bug bit, it will be on. Well, I'll fix the lathe first whilst find out more about this forum's hobby.

Australia is quite windy, when it's mad.. it's around 30km/h all day. but of course, not all the time laugh

For the QCTP that I found I guess I was only lured to it because of the wording, it said Unimat, Proxxon, Sakai, etc. Material wise I agree with you. I guess some factory just spit out stuff quick out of softer material and cosmetically decorate it. They are just keeping up with current trend of things that expire quickly cool.

With that to say... isn't it should be cheaper? cheeky

Cheers

ps. checking run out is another thing. heheh, I honestly can't say yet that this lathe I got is running well.

Pete Gilbert 102/02/2015 20:49:46
avatar
33 forum posts
10 photos

Aluminium can be hardened/toughened and a deep anodized layer will be harder still, but it isn't steel after all is said and done.

Edited By Pete Gilbert 1 on 02/02/2015 20:56:20

Pete Gilbert 102/02/2015 20:55:32
avatar
33 forum posts
10 photos
Posted by elixir oliver on 02/02/2015 08:33:03:

I always like RC planes, but as a kid they were the luxury in toys world. Owning one was like having a Bentley.

But, I grow up, thats good news.

I watched 'Hector and the search for Happiness' last night and they were a snip of them playing RC aeroplane.

Guess if the bug bit, it will be on. Well, I'll fix the lathe first whilst find out more about this forum's hobby.

Australia is quite windy, when it's mad.. it's around 30km/h all day. but of course, not all the time laugh

Not sure where in Aus you're located, but Andrew Newton is an epic maker and flier down in Victoria, where it always seems to be windy! He doesn't seem to do scale planes or much balsa wood stuff. Foam rules!!

Pete Gilbert 102/02/2015 21:07:06
avatar
33 forum posts
10 photos
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 02/02/2015 06:50:48:
Posted by Pete Gilbert 1 on 01/02/2015 23:34:34:

I shall have to correct it before I go much further, as one of my tight tolerance requirements for this lathe is turning parts for propeller adapters for my RC planes. And with a prop rotating at 10000 rpm or more, any imbalances must be minimised.

Hmm, I really need a collet holder for increased accuracy.

.

Pete,

Remember that, although collets are very convenient, there are other ways of achieving concentricity:

  • Start with oversize material, and turn everything at one setting [i.e. do not remove the work from the chuck until the job is complete].
  • Turn between centres ... for ultimate accuracy, turn between dead centres.
  • Use Shellac, on a 'Wax Chuck' [centre the work whilst the Shellac is still warm].

One or more of these methods can be adopted/adapted to suit almost any small turning job.

For some inspiration; have a look around this 'Adventures in Watchmaking' site.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/02/2015 06:52:42

I agree with everything you've said except the shellac stuff. I've never heard of that till now. But it's verrrry interesting and I've found this thread on homemodelenginemachinist.com And now that I've seen it, I agree with that too! thumbs up I can see the benefits!!

Thanks for opening my eyes Michael. I owe you one! beer

Edited By Pete Gilbert 1 on 02/02/2015 21:21:57

Pete Gilbert 102/02/2015 21:21:10
avatar
33 forum posts
10 photos
Posted by elixir oliver on 26/01/2015 03:01:55:

As this is my first lathe, my limited understanding is trying to get original spareparts. But after reading this post, it seems I could use toolpost from other lathe.


Check out this "Info" page I just found on the Home Model Engine Machinist website.

elixir oliver03/02/2015 13:55:32
15 forum posts
11 photos

wow...

it's a whole new world to me.

this looks like a seriously addictive stuff!

Thanks for all the links.

Cheers

elixir oliver05/02/2015 14:10:45
15 forum posts
11 photos

Had a chat with my machinist today. Asking him questions about lathe etc..

Turns out he also recomends.. guess what: Model-engineer magazine. Small world.

Well, he is a bit busy at the moment. So, hopefully by a week something will show up.

I'll post it here again.

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
Warco
ChesterUK
emcomachinetools
Eccentric July 5 2018
EngineDIY
cowells
Eccentric Engineering
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest