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Has the world gone mad

Low energy lamps

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Speedy Builder522/01/2014 19:08:24
2186 forum posts
152 photos

Last night there was a 'pop' and the standard lamp went out and Tv went off etc. On visiting the fuse box, the circuit breaker had tripped and that had tripped the RCD. After unplugging the standard lamp, power was restored. There was a nice smell of burning emitted from the lamp and the low energy bulb was too hot to touch for a moment? When the lamp had cooled I was curious as to why after less than 2 years use it had given up the ghost.

lowenergy.jpg

"Carefully taking the lamp apart" I found the burnt out electronics module behind the minature 6 watt flourescent tube. I could not believe that this 'marvel of modern science' was made up of more than 26 components- viz: 2 transistors,9 diodes,5 resistors,7 capacitors, transformer,choke and PCB. Is it small wonder that this costs £7 or more. All this is then considered low energy lighting. I can conceed that in use it is low energy, but the manufacture and consupmption of energy to produce it probably outstrips savings made during its lifetime - especially if this is shortlived. Of course the 10 year guarantee is not worth the paper it is printed on. I have sent lamps back under guarantee but by the time you have put pen to paper and found the original invoice (Which you keep for 10 years) - its not really worth the effort.

What do you think - Are we being conned ?

Bob H

jason udall22/01/2014 19:16:44
2030 forum posts
41 photos
No quite right.
Until last year.
No solar panels made would "generate" more energy in their life , than used in the manufacture and shipping

Low energy compact ( looks like light bulb)..include lots of electronics as you found. .but all is discarded..
Some manufacturers did do a system where just the tube was changed..but they cost tuppence more and where "unsightly"..so we get to where we are today...LED lamps will not fall in price since the manufactures still have an investment to pay off on cfl ..
Michael Gilligan22/01/2014 20:26:08
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17035 forum posts
756 photos

Compact Fluorescents were indeed a disaster on all sorts of levels [not least the apalling spectral quality of the light]: But they were touted as some sort of Environmental Salvation ... which, as Bob H has demonstrated, was Bovine Manure !!

Mercifully, LED technology is improving rapidly and we should soon be rid of the CFL.

The current crop of Mains Voltage LED Bulbs from IKEA is quite impressive, but probably the best I have tried so far came from B&Q [and these are available in Bayonet fit].

We live in hope.

MichaelG.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/01/2014 20:30:11

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/01/2014 20:43:18

FMES22/01/2014 21:08:36
606 forum posts
2 photos

Of course you are being conned.

All this rubbish about 'low energy' this and that is literally rubbish.

Yes, a 60watt light bulb emits a fair proportion of its energy as heat, and the removal of the heat is all you are saving with the new lamps.

So if you remove all of the old incandescent lamps and substitute them for the new types you will have to supplement the removed heat from another source i'e your heating system, if you wish to retain your current comfort levels.

You don't get anything for nothing

Michael Gilligan22/01/2014 21:29:07
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17035 forum posts
756 photos
Posted by Lofty76 on 22/01/2014 21:08:36:

So if you remove all of the old incandescent lamps and substitute them for the new types you will have to supplement the removed heat from another source i'e your heating system, if you wish to retain your current comfort levels.

.

An excellent argument in favour of that Class_A audio amplifier

... The biggest advantage of the LEDs might turn out to be longevity of the house wiring ... it's amazing how stiff some of the insulation has become, adjacent to [correctly rated] incandescent bulb fittings.

MichaelG.

speelwerk22/01/2014 22:02:55
377 forum posts
1 photos

Apart from the questionable energy safer, it is also hazardous waste containing quicksilver. Niko.

Gone Away22/01/2014 22:28:43
829 forum posts
1 photos

Reminds me of an article in Sci-Am recently (within the last year or so). They compared the environmental (pollution) savings using electric vehicles with the pollution produced in generating the electrical power to charge them, for various areas of the US.

Depending on how the power was generated, there were significant areas of the US where electric vehicles were a net producer of pollution.

WALLACE23/01/2014 00:14:33
304 forum posts
17 photos
Guess where all those circuit boards and components are being manufactured ?
Could it possibly be the same part of the plannet with air pollution so bad, there are times you can't see acrosd the road ??

But it's not over here so that's alright rhen....
Ian S C23/01/2014 10:15:09
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7468 forum posts
230 photos

We should be able to soon do the house lighting circuit with low voltage, maybe 6V DC or less if all the lights go LED, that might make for safety. Ian S C

old Al23/01/2014 10:19:33
180 forum posts

To all of the above contributors.

Please go to your local government brainwashing department for 'retraining'.

Your views are contrary to the government's 'experts' and therefor need adjusting.

As I understand it, the pollution produced in one country, stays in that country. ha ha ha ha ha ha. In china they just have pollution fog, In this country we have 'green' fog, but some can see through it.

Swarf, Mostly!23/01/2014 10:33:41
556 forum posts
47 photos
Posted by Ian S C on 23/01/2014 10:15:09:

We should be able to soon do the house lighting circuit with low voltage, maybe 6V DC or less if all the lights go LED, that might make for safety. Ian S C

Hi there, Ian,

That sounds OK if you say it quickly. However, when you work out the required cross-sctional-area of copper required to distribute a low voltage supply any distance without excessive voltage drop, it gets less practicable. Copper is expensive and the second-best, aluminium, is tricky to work and to joint.

[I did once tease a Hi-Fi dealer (he was trying to sell me gold-plated loudspeaker cables) that I linked my loudspeakers to my amplifier via the flow and return pipes of the microbore central heating system.]

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

V8Eng23/01/2014 11:22:12
1509 forum posts
30 photos

6v DC and mains voltage wired to various points all over the same house! That sounds like a whole new dodgy can of worms to me.

Gas lighting and Tallow candles, what new fangled inventions are they? I will stick with my rush lights thank you!

JA23/01/2014 11:26:39
1055 forum posts
54 photos
Posted by speelwerk on 22/01/2014 22:02:55:

Apart from the questionable energy safer, it is also hazardous waste containing quicksilver. Niko.

I love this one.

Mercury is used in low energy lights, dentistry etc but is banned from "normal" use such as barometers, manometers and such like. Why? Because it is poisonous.

May I suggest another reason. Mercury, like Helium and Gold, is a material that has a very finite quantity on this planet. Very little more will be found so in normal circumstances its cost will go up with demand. So you ban it for normal use, which frees up an awful lot of the stuff for use in all these lights.

OK, it is poisonous.

JA

steamdave23/01/2014 14:33:26
462 forum posts
35 photos

Posted by Ian S C on 23/01/2014 10:15:09:

We should be able to soon do the house lighting circuit with low voltage, maybe 6V DC or less if all the lights go LED, that might make for safety. Ian S C

'Fraid that's old hat. It was proposed in the early 80's. I remember reading an article in Pop. Science showing an 'energy saving' house built in Arizona (I think). Among the ideas was using 12v for all lighting circuits.

Dave
The Emerald Isle


DMB23/01/2014 16:17:54
1054 forum posts

"JA",

There might also be another reason to ban mercury in thermometers etc; used as anti-knock compound in petrol in place of "poisonous" lead?? AFAIK, no-one has ever denied that. If I`m wrong, WHAT was used in place of lead?John

Stub Mandrel23/01/2014 18:44:42
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4311 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles

> So if you remove all of the old incandescent lamps and substitute them for the new types you will have to supplement the removed heat from another source i'e your heating system, if you wish to retain your current comfort levels.

A true point that is little mentioned, although it is a seasonal effect (in summer it makes the air conditioning work harder, if you have any) and it depends somewhat on how you control your heating. It's one of the advantages of a condensing tumble drier - although not really any more efficient, all the heat is recycled into the house instead of down a pipe.

I have greatly reduced our home heating costs - almost entirely by waging war on draughts, of which their are legion in our much-modified 30's semi.

> WHAT was used in place of lead?John

Err, what about nothing? The engines were designed to run on lower octane petrols and valve seat designs were changed. Yes there were/are additives for non-compatible engines (are you thinking of the manganese compuinds used in Australasia?).

> Low voltage systems

The problem is lower voltage means much higher currents, bigger, thicker conductors and greater risk of fire. 240V optimises conductor size, whilst 110V, symmetrical around earth is relatively safe.

May finally be a practical proposition with more efficient LED and modern electronics that run on relatively low currents, although even a 50W TV will need 4A at 12V and 8A at 6V. I think that what will probably happen is a 5V standard with outlets of up to 2A which we will use for all the small electrical equipment, with the larger gear still using AC mains.

Personally I think the UK 240V should be dropped to match most of Europe's 220V (230V is a compromise nominal value that suits both systems within the margin for error).

The drop would not materially affect most electrical/electronic equipment and it would reduce the consumption of non-thermostatic heaters etc. with materially affecting performance. Probably not popular with the energy companies...

Neil

 

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 23/01/2014 18:57:30

FMES23/01/2014 19:14:32
606 forum posts
2 photos
Posted by DMB on 23/01/2014 16:17:54:

"JA",

There might also be another reason to ban mercury in thermometers etc; used as anti-knock compound in petrol in place of "poisonous" lead?? AFAIK, no-one has ever denied that. If I`m wrong, WHAT was used in place of lead?John

John, Potassium and Manganese were the main additives to petrol due to the removal of tetraethyl Lead.

TEL was added to allow higher compression engines and to prevent exhaust valve and seat recession in cast iron heads / valve seats.

Japan has never used leaded fuels as all their engines had hardened valve seats in alloy heads, a trait that has now been incorporated in all engines built these days.

daveb23/01/2014 20:10:15
624 forum posts
10 photos
Posted by Ian S C on 23/01/2014 10:15:09:

We should be able to soon do the house lighting circuit with low voltage, maybe 6V DC or less if all the lights go LED, that might make for safety. Ian S C

As others point out, it would not be practical to have a separate 6V circuit for lights. The answer is simple, each light has it's own switch mode power supply consisting of 2 transistors,9 diodes, 5 resistors................

Stub Mandrel23/01/2014 22:11:04
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4311 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles

> each light has it's own switch mode power supply consisting of 2 transistors,9 diodes, 5 resistors.....

At a cost of pence... this is why hefty transformer wall-warts are so rare now, replaced by SMPSUs of unfeasible capacity and tiny size.

Neil

DMB23/01/2014 22:40:20
1054 forum posts

Stub Mandrel & Lofty76,

Thanx 4 xplanation of lead substitution. Too long ago now to remember where I read about a mercury compound having replaced a lead one. I accept what you have both said.

As regards previous posts about electronics, there are plenty of other mad changes. I believe you can no longer purchase "paraffin" but you can still obtain the same stuff if you call it "lamp oil"!!

I can still buy old type incandescent bulbs as they are only banned for sale for home use. Still available for "industrial use" whatever that means.

Good `ol Creosote has gone. So do own car oil changes and use old muck as preservative on garden fence -recycling! If neighbour asks, its not a lie to call it wood preservative!

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