Methanol burning beast!!
|dean clarke 2||06/12/2013 04:37:23|
163 forum posts
hi guys ,just thought i'd let you all know of my latest attempt at this model engine building lark. Am just in the process of making a supercharged v 12 2 stroke and will try and post photos as i complete bits etc.
|jason udall||06/12/2013 18:02:22|
|2030 forum posts|
|Supercharged two stroke?|
Look forward to seeing it...
Would sound evil...grins...
168 forum posts
? Is this by increasing the pressure into the crankcase or by increasing the flow between "primary compression" and the main (explosion) compression - keep us posted
|dean clarke 2||07/12/2013 04:12:58|
163 forum posts
here is the first stage of the block.
|Raymond Fairfield||07/12/2013 05:50:11|
|3 forum posts|
Refer to Rolls Royce work at end of WWII. Around 27 litres of it would have been something. Problems with oiling/cooling and superseded by jets.
|Jens Eirik Skogstad||07/12/2013 08:54:54|
400 forum posts
Supercharging the 2 stroke engine is not possible due the inlet port and exhaust port is still open and zero effective cylinder filling. Also the pressure of fuel/air in crankcase is trowing away out of exhaust port. To make the 2 stroke engine effective: Use tuned pipe.
|125 forum posts|
IIRC when MotoGP switched to four-strokes the two-stroke bikes were producing 360 BHP/ltr.
|Ian S C||07/12/2013 10:23:04|
7468 forum posts
Rather than a supercharger, a two stroke would have a scavenging pump. Sounds like a interesting engine.
Ian S C
|jonathan heppel||07/12/2013 10:32:41|
|99 forum posts|
Some 40 years ago there was a series in ME titled " Blower charged two stroke engines", if memory serves. The author firstly experimented with a vertical twin, then built a rather pretty V4.
|Martin W||07/12/2013 11:09:33|
|872 forum posts|
While on a somewhat different scale two stroke turbo charged diesel engines are used to power some of the larger ships today, see this link.That said I have no idea how this would be implemented on a small scale!!.
That's an impressive group of engines you have displayed in your album
Edited By Martin W on 07/12/2013 11:18:29
4437 forum posts
The RTA96C-14 turbocharged two-stroke diesel engine is produced by Swiss company Wartsila-Sulzer and is the largest and most powerful diesel engine in the world today.
A Swiss Company.... Switzerland is landlocked and produces marine diesels...
Whatever happened to Britannia rules the waves?
|Clive Hartland||07/12/2013 11:36:51|
2671 forum posts
The engine that powers Greyhound Buses and the M109 is a 2 stroke diesel and is double supercharged. It has a Rootes blower and an exhaust blower.
The space between the V cylinders is a Plenum chamber, the Rootes blower sits above it and the exhaust blower feeds the Rootes blower. The cylinder sleeves have a 360 deg. porting and I would assume the blowers just overpressure the cyl. to evacuate the exhaust?
The exhaust type is a parallel double tube with one end closed off and helps blow out exhaust gases. In fact my SAAB 95 had such a system in the exhaust, very efficient.
I can see supercharging before the fuel inlet as a method, that I am sure would work. I wonder what is the point as I have had McCoys and Doolings peaking at 20000 + rpm and these were single cyl.
We had an incident where an M109 engine, 'ran away' and to stop it a certain Snco bunged his combat jacket into the inlet to the superchager and it very kindly sucked it in and shredded it into fluff and bits of zipper. It barely coughed while doing! The Injectors where the pump type and on a rail and the linkage would jam and thats why it ran away.
|1597 forum posts|
I seem to remember from my youth that some Commer lorries were fitted with blown 3 cylinder 2 stroke engines.
No idea how it was all arranged, but the sound was very unusual.
Edited By V8Eng on 07/12/2013 12:59:48
|1597 forum posts|
Oh yes nearly forgot to mention the wonderful Deltic 2 strokes but they were Turbocharged, which sounds pretty much well suited for the application.
your engines look very good dean, I look forwards to seeing this one progress.
Edited By V8Eng on 07/12/2013 14:07:45
|Jens Eirik Skogstad||07/12/2013 16:57:47|
400 forum posts
The supercharger in the two stoke engine is not same as a 4 stroke engine with super charger when we are speaking about increase the horsepower out of the engine. In the large 2 stroke engine such as in Sulzer or in Messerscmitt, these large engines is without crankcase as a blower as in all small 2 stroke engines do have it, hence the supercarger/Rootes blower is used as a blower while the moving parts below the piston/cylinder is lubricated by circulation oil.
|1153 forum posts|
The RR Crecy was complex even by the standards of aeroengine engine design towards the end of War. In its full form it was a V12 two stroke with a typical RR engine driven supercharger. It used sleeve valves with only inlet ports, the gases exhausted over the top of the sleeve. The fuel was injected directly into the engine. Thankfully the jet engine arrived.
Rolls-Royce Heritage Trust publish an excellent book of sectioned drawings of piston aeroengines which includes the Crecy and Junker Jumo, a typical opposed piston diesel engine similar to the Roots engine except that it had two crankshafts.
|Ian Abbott||07/12/2013 18:06:19|
279 forum posts
What Clive is on about is the General Motors 8V92. A turbo on each bank of the V8 feed a roots blower in the V. Intake is via ports in the cylinder walls and exhaust is through two normal poppet valves in the head. There's no injection pump, each cylinder has its own, camshaft driven via push rods. They're notorious for running away, so there's a panic flap on the intake, with a red knob in the cab to pull. It doesn't stop the engine, but it does give you time to select a high gear to try to stall it. It's truly frightening when one gets away.
A lot of the big trucks in the States and Canada use them, Kenworth et al.
The 8V92 designation is eight cylinders of 92 cubic inch in a V formation. That's (reaches for calculator) 736 cubic inches. About 12 litres, I think.
|Clive Hartland||07/12/2013 21:28:12|
2671 forum posts
As its some 43 years back since I overhauled these 'V' 2 stroke engines its all coming back to me. They had 4 valves per Cyl. and a pump injector driven off the cam shaft that also operated the valves. The supercharge pressure was 24lb. The pressure was in the Plenum chamber between the Cyl. and was passed into the bores through the 360 deg porting. So that as the piston was pushed down by burning fuel the valves opened at BDC and the supercharge pressure cleared the cyl. of burnt gases. Valves close and the pressure is then taken up by the pistons and they move up and the pump injects the fuel at TDC and the cycle goes on. the Pistons had a chamber in the crown. I think they were 440bhp and moved the gun through an automatic gearbox and could do 45mph. It weighed 42 Tonne was made of Alu. armour. Hard on the outside and soft inside. From conversations with US crewmen it did not stop RPG. It stopped small arms fire. It was armed with a 0.5 Browning on the cupola hatch. Steered by a wheel not tillers. The Gunners like them and it was a very accurate gun at 155mm bore. I have seen them lob shells down the hatch of target tanks at 2500 meters. Had a range of some 19km. and after we up-gunned them with a longer barrel and a base bleed shell it went out to about 27km.
I believe no longer in service. Clive
|John Olsen||08/12/2013 04:02:58|
|1169 forum posts|
DKW had a supercharged two stroke petrol motorcycle before the war. I beleive the supercharger was a piston type, and the supercharge was applied before the crankcase compression. I beleive the power cylinder or maybe cylinders, was a split single design which allows assymetrical timing for the transfer and exhaust, which would be desirable since otherwise most of the mixture would just blow on through. As it was, I gather the fuel economy was terrible, about three miles to the gallon. The link says that when they reaced in the Isle of Man you could hear them 60 miles away on hte mainland....
|dean clarke 2||08/12/2013 23:11:46|
163 forum posts
hi again, thanks for the info. i believe that it is possible to supercharge 2 stroke engines. the object of the super charger is to create a crankcase pressure when it is unable to be used as a pump eg there is more than 1 piston in a common crankcase which therefor removes the ability of the crankcase to be a pump for the transfer. so add 1 blower and problem solved. there are many commercial engines that have been built to this design over the years. the berger 7 cylinder 2 stroke radial is just 1 example that springs to mind.
will update photos tonight as the crankcase is now finished
Please login to post a reply.
Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!
You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.
Click THIS LINK for full contact details.
For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.