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D1-3 spindle nose adaptor

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Muzzer12/01/2014 01:53:38
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2904 forum posts
448 photos

I created these parts in Alibre (now called Geomagic) using the 30 day trial. I also saved them as .PAR and .ASM files which work with Solidworks and Solid Edge - and 3D PDF files (for the models) and PDF (for the drawings). However, you lose the history (feature) tree when you export to another application like this, so if you wanted to edit them yourself it would be preferable to use Alibre. So if you have any of these CAD applications or just want the PDF and dimensioned drawings, that's no problem - let me know. Apart from the mounting bolt holes (to suit your setup), you could make most of it from the drawings.

If you are planning on using one of these with a rotary table, it would be convenient if yours had 3 slots to start with. The D1-3 and D1-4 noses have 3 studs and my challenge was getting the 3 studs to co-exist with the 2 mounting slots within the adaptor. As I said, my task would have been easier if I'd started with a larger diameter lump of steel but I was brassic at the time, having just coughed up for a.....rotary table.

A lot of the work is done on the rotary table, so if you have one of these already, creating the fixing holes early on helps the workflow. I also found the DRO I fitted to my milling machine to be invaluable and I suspect I'd have made a pig's ear of it otherwise. I used a centre finder a lot on this job during setup with the DRO and I'm ashamed to admit I hadn't realised how they are supposed to be used until this point! The power of Youtube!

Apart from the various boring operations, careful setup of the 3 cams in the 4-jaw was the other critical activity but it all worked out nicely in the end. I've now used it a few times since I made it and it's been pretty useful.

I'm really not likely to write up anything for the magazine. I'm much more inclined to use my free time in the workshop but you'll notice I've created a couple of short photo journal type postings like this which I hope people find interesting in the same way I do when I browse other people's work looking for ideas and inspiration.

Muzzer

Tony Ray13/01/2014 12:32:36
178 forum posts
43 photos

Muzzer,

I understand re workshop time but please do keep the photo journal stuff coming !

If you would share the Alibre and PDF files If I can't get Geomagic going I'll have the PDFs as a backup. Like you I have a 4 slot rotary. Apart form objections of raising the overall fixture height I wondered if you considered an adaptor plate ? Plate of a larger dia than fixture - with 4 holes to suit rotary table and 3 inner mounting holes offset by 60 degrees to the camlock stud postion. Perhaps it did not fit with your cash position at the time.

Yes Youtube is great - I learned that I could draw (sketch).

I'll PM you re files

Thanks again

Tony

Muzzer13/01/2014 22:02:55
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2904 forum posts
448 photos

The main issue with adaptor plates is that I have a selection of chucks and faceplates and don't want to disassemble them each time just to use them - and I don't want to go out and buy a load more chucks with a different mount. My adaptor height is set by the length of the Camlock pins. The collet chuck exaggerates the height stackup but there again I have a full-sized machine so it isn't usually going to be a problem. What milling machine do you have?

I'll send you the files when I get home. When you are ready, you can install Geomagic and have a go with the trial. The basic version is pretty cheap to buy if you find you like it. It wasn't too bad really.

Muzzer

Tony Ray14/01/2014 19:10:33
178 forum posts
43 photos

Muzzer,

i have an SX3 mill,380mm is the max spindle to table distance on the R8 variant and my friend has an Adcock & Shipley universal. He has a Bantam & I have an M250 both are d1-3 which is handy.

That's a nice collet chuck is it a multibore ?

Thanks for the files too

Tony

Muzzer14/01/2014 20:18:06
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2904 forum posts
448 photos

Yes, it's a Burnerd Multisize chuck. Very nice and accurate (and solid). Recommended if you can find one with D1-3 mount in MEW ads (keep your eyes open). This is the key operated version. I also have the lever operated version but it's only sensible for repetition work which I never do - too much of a gadfly.

Muzzer

Christoph Schuler04/03/2015 16:07:31
1 forum posts

Hello Muzzer

I'm from Switzerland.
Sorry for my bad English.
Do you have a drawing with the exact contour of the locking bolt and screw-in camlock from size 3?
We want to grow this change in our system working robot.
Unfortunately, I find no drawings on the exact geometry of the bolt and the material and the hardening process.

I can not wait for your answer

Greetings Christoph

Willliam Powell10/03/2017 18:01:03
19 forum posts
18 photos

Sorry to dredge up the dark past here. I joined this site specifically for this post. Hopefully you don't mind helping out an old Yank.

I have a 1948 Clausing 111, and I despise the threaded spindle nose. Never liked them. This lathe had been relegated to being used for winding coil springs. She was tired and busted up. fortunately the castings were not in bad shape, and the bed cleaned up with a light stoning and mild scrape. The spindle is another matter, as it is bent a little, and the nose threads are worn. Compounding this is the fact that I made a mistake when I was getting this thing working in the first place, and faled to note that the spindle thread was Whitworth, and threaded my backing plates 60 degree USS. Live and learn... Weighing options, I decided that a new spindle with a more modern design would fit the situation best, as I could have reverse in addition to leaving clapping chucks behind.

I'm at the point where I need to get a precise location for the cams, both axially and radially. I feel like I can perhaps infer the location, but I'd rather be certain. I have made up a 'dummy' which will be used for fixing chucks to the table on my shaper, and the spindle itself is ready for radial drilling.

I will have to learn how to attach images, as a picture is worth..................

Thank you in advance,

Will

Willliam Powell10/03/2017 20:02:02
19 forum posts
18 photos

17191870_10208141685047700_7650288234243121325_o.jpg17203020_10208132477737523_1780570570220283929_n.jpg16716344_10208016258352111_290591600877917245_o.jpgOk, Pix's.

16798014_10208014520748672_119285955852670519_o.jpg

Tony Ray11/03/2017 06:45:40
178 forum posts
43 photos

Will,

That's looking good. I'm sure I have a copy of the drawing somewhere and will PM it to you over the weekend. For my rotary table fixture project I managed to get hold of a D1-3 nosepiece and used that.

Tony

Chris Evans 611/03/2017 10:10:44
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1974 forum posts

A well executed piece of work and write up. Inspiration to us all.

Willliam Powell11/03/2017 18:04:50
19 forum posts
18 photos

Well thank you.

I set up the dummy part which will end up being the milling fixture, and have been doing some trial layout and inferences about the position of the cams. I bought a set of cams from MSC, but will make the second set.

more photos to come as I get them transferred to the gonkulator.

Muzzer12/03/2017 09:40:30
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2904 forum posts
448 photos

If you PM me I can give you copies of the specs for the Camlock system. This has everything you could need in terms of dimensions etc. Another kind forum member was helpful enough to get them for me back when I was first doing this work. I'm abroad on business at the moment but hopefully I will be able to get my hands on them from here.

Murray

Willliam Powell12/03/2017 16:17:54
19 forum posts
18 photos

Well, I got excited and decided to take a whack at cam placement by inference. by using a set of purchased cams, (Whew - expensive), and fiddling around with them on the backing plate I bought, I got some preliminary numbers and decided to punch out the test fixture. I'm not entirely sure about my angular placement, but it's close.

I misestimated the engagement depth, but cheated it by extending the pins by one turn out from the gaging line. It worked.

I'm still hoping for real dimensions before I start making chips on the spindle. I could afford scrapping the test fixture, as it was a piece of fall off from my supplier, and I paid a couple of dollars for it.

Willliam Powell12/03/2017 16:19:52
19 forum posts
18 photos

17158895_10208171027381240_967793227001327028_o.jpg

Willliam Powell14/03/2017 16:45:02
19 forum posts
18 photos

17192472_10208162101278093_4994420313139464473_o.jpg17190486_10208187861922093_3857498094251109166_n.jpgCourtesy of Murray (Muzzer), I have the spindle specs I needed to make this thing right. Thank you sir!

my inferred cam position was off by 3 degrees radially and 0.070" axially. It worked anyway, but did not feel right, and as I posted above, I had to extend the pins one turn.

I have redone my layout and its back on the platen in the lathe. (I don't have a mill).

As usual, the photos are not in order....

17156022_10208187861722088_207154127046895412_n.jpg

IanH18/05/2019 11:26:47
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106 forum posts
61 photos

Having just bought a rotary table with a controller attached, the idea of being able to move chucks direct from the lather to the rotary table appealed. I read this post and exchanged notes with Murray and set to. My design is based on the standard but differs from Murray's in that my rotary table only has three slots which makes things easier, I also put hexagon heads on the cams but stayed closer to the standard stop bolt orientation to keep the height of the adaptor to a minimum. I did not bother making the spring loaded stop bolt arrangement but could add this later I suppose.

img_20190518_105145.jpg

The standard is not so easy to use as it gives design detail for the full range of cam lock spindles but you can puzzle it out.

I came across another post questioning the design of the cams themselves so I thought it might be useful if I shared my understanding and the method of making them.

The first question was about the cam profile and the angle "v" on the standard. I am on the same page as Murray here and believe that the cam profile is in fact a circle - with a bit of geometry you can work out that for the D1-3 cam the diameter of the cam portion is 0.677" and it is eccentric to the body of the cam by 0.031". The angle "v" on the drawing essentially shows that the required cam action occurs over this angle, the dimensions "d" and "e" tell you the extent of the cam action. having made them to this scheme I can confirm that it all works fine.

When it comes to making them I started with three blanks featuring a chucking piece on the inboard end of each blank. The outboard end is extended versus the standard to take the hexagon rather then the square hole as specified.

img_20190515_163406.jpg

I have a smallish 3 jaw chuck with a large hexagon shaped lump on the back in place of a back plate - I use this in the milling machine to put the hexagons on.

Next I made up a little jig block that in based on a square but has a hole for the chucking piece through it offset by the required 0.031" eccentricity. It also has a register at the same eccentricity to allow it to be held in the 3 jaw to turn the eccentric cam. I also added flats on the block at 45 degrees to facilitate the later machining of the 45 degree feature.

Let me just add a photo of that....

IanH18/05/2019 11:37:24
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106 forum posts
61 photos

img_20190518_112256.jpg

This is then used first of all to machine the eccentric cam, then whilst still in the jog, the cam is trasferred to the milling machine for all the subsequent operations....the cut out to clear the cam lock pin, the 45 degree face and the hole for the stop bolt detent. Note that getting these features in the right orientation to each other is important so I marked up the jig to show this and also made sure that the hexagon was aligned consistently with the other features. I aligned the hexagon anticipating leaving off the detent feature and needed a way to indicate that the cam was disengaged.

img_20190516_095641.jpg

Here is a cam ready for de-burring.

Once de-burred the chucking piece can be machined off and everything fitted together for testing. I added a centre pop on the end of each cams hexagon indicating the position when the cam was fully released.

The first picture in the previous post shows the finished item ready to go - maybe I will add the detent, but for now I have to get on with some other things so that will wait for another day.

Thanks to Murray for kicking this all off - it is a great idea.

Ian

J Birch12/06/2019 16:44:20
1 forum posts

I too am very keen on making one of these. Has anyone got the drawings done for one to save me a job? I can change the sizes to suit the size of cam lock I have on my lathe pretty easy.... (I still need to measure it up and find out which one I have)

Thanks

Jon

Mark Randall22/06/2020 16:53:40
2 forum posts

Hi everyone, I don’t seem to be alone in signing up specifically to find out more about Muzzer’s great build with a view to building myself one! Well done Muzzer, you caused quite a stir and it’s lasted for 7 years so far!! Could anyone help me with drawings for this? I’m having great fun learning Fudion360 so I’m up for a Stp file, a pdf, a dxf or a dwg. I have a feeling this site might become something of a habit! Cheers, Mark

Anthony Ashgrove02/01/2021 10:23:45
9 forum posts

Hi,

I have a L0 nose fitting on my lathe (Colchester Student), getting backing plates is expensive, while the D1-3 backing plates are less than half the cost. I did check if the nose spindle from the later models (with the D1-3 fitting) would fit, but they don't! I have decided to draw up an adapter in Fusion 360, L0 taper on the inside, and D1-3 camlock on the outside, if it looks like it would work and not be too cumbersome I might even make it. Currently I am trying to collect information, I have the specification of the L0 taper, just need to get the D1-3 Camlock details, BSI sell the ISO 702-2 specification BUT they want £134 for a PDF, this is almost a weeks pension... does anyone know if this is available anywhere else at a reasonable cost, I can find the exterior dimensions for the backing plates, but cant find any details of the camlock system, which is all I need.Thanks and Happy new year to all

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