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eBAY - Shill Bidding

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Steve Withnell10/02/2013 11:31:24
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848 forum posts
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I'm just bidding on a piece of kit and there are currently 18 bids on the thing.

If I look at the bids they are all marked "private listing - bidders' identities protected".

What protection do I have that I'm not bidding against myself? I can't determine how many people are bidding never mind who they are.

Steve

fizzy10/02/2013 11:55:28
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1848 forum posts
121 photos

hi - you cant bid against yourself on ebay.

John Stevenson10/02/2013 12:03:08
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5068 forum posts
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There is only one way to buy on Ebay.

That is to ask yourself "What is it worth to me ? " Just say it's part way thru the auction and is at say £30.00 you work out that whatever that part is worth £100 to you but you , like anyone want to pay as little as possible.

So mark it for watch, don't bid and then in the last 20 - 30 seconds bang in a bid of £108.80 and sit back. you will either get it or not.

If you don't get it it's because someone has put a far higher value on it than you. nothing you can do about it.

If you do get it you will get it for the next highest bid that's on so you will pay anywhere from £31 to £108 Just because you put £108 on doesn't mean you will pay £108 only if the last bid was £105 as it goes up in pounds to £100 and fives after £100.

Now why £108.80 ? when you are prepared to go to £100 ?

If you are willing to spend £100 then £8.80 extra is a drop in the ocean and there are people out there with the same mind as you [ lots more now this post has gone on wink ] and if they think £100 is max then some put £101.50 on, the clever ones put £105.50 on.

I know you can keep going endlessly but there has to be a limit.

chris j10/02/2013 12:10:25
338 forum posts
17 photos
Try using something like gixen.com.
chris j10/02/2013 12:11:22
338 forum posts
17 photos
Btw, the private listing thing is done by the seller when they put the item up for sale.
_Paul_10/02/2013 12:19:27
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543 forum posts
31 photos

I normally set what I feel is a good price to pay for an item and then put that figure into Goofbay with a snipe timing of around 5 seconds then like John I make it some absurd figure slightly above the obvious one.

Works most of the time and you arent contributing to the "auction fever" that sometimes takes hold.

Paul

John Stevenson10/02/2013 12:19:28
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5068 forum posts
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Using a snipe bidding tool like Auction Sentry or Gixen still requires you to have a final price in your mind. If in my example you had bid say £40 in the last few seconds it wouldn't even register if the bids were above this.

These snipe programs are great if you are away from a computer when the auction ends. I won a milling attachment whilst i was driving to pick some other gear up using one of these programs.

It's all about value now not getting a bargain as there are very few.

Ebay is setting prices.

Someone finds a do dah in a drawer and thinks "I'll sell that " but don't have a clue what it's worth, so they go on Ebay, look on completed listings and find some do dah's that sold for £12 so they list theirs for £12. That sets the price of do dah's now to £12 across the board.

Ever wonder why you get so many watchers on an item that only raises a few bids ? chances are they have the same item to sell.

David Littlewood10/02/2013 13:13:13
533 forum posts

I wish you guys wouldn't give the game away like that! I've been relying on the stupid bidding practices of others for years!

David

Cornish Jack10/02/2013 13:44:47
1219 forum posts
171 photos

All quite interesting and, yes, 'snipe' bidding makes sense BUT it doesn't have anything to do with the OP's query!.

The problem is, as he says, EBay allowing 'Private Listing'. All this does is offer open house to shill bidding. Since this was introduced, I am even more careful about whether I bid on an item or not. Unless the item is 'can't do without it' , any appearance of Private :Listing, means that I will not bid. There is NO valid reason for bidder identity not being available, other than shill bidding - and that is not only against the EBay terms of reference, it is, I believe, ILLEGAL in this country. Oh, and I KNOW that it does happen. CAVEAT EMPTOR indeed!

Rgds

Bill

David Clark 110/02/2013 13:49:09
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3357 forum posts
112 photos
10 articles

Hi There

I have found hammersnipe very good. I rarely buy from Ebay anymore.
Unless it is a common item, I will often pay over the odds because I only want the one item.

If it is common, I will wait for another to come along.

There is another way to find out someones bid with a fair degree of accuracy.

Bid upwards in the auction increments but try to keep the bid just below the round amount.

So, if someone has bid say $17 and the increments are 50 cents, bid $17 and 90 cents.

Then, when the other persons bid is less than the auction increment, you know what they have bid so if you bid the $17 and 90 cents, and the auction goes to $18 you know this is the other bidders final bid but Ebay does not email them that they have been out bid and warn them.

This usually works but occasionally you might bid more than the other bidder.

regards David

Douglas Johnston10/02/2013 14:12:26
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773 forum posts
34 photos

Some silly people get caught out by bidding stupid sums on an item at the last minute then find an under bidder has just bid a little less. When I was selling a cement mixer a while ago I looked at the going rate which was about £100. One mixer however sold for over £1000 because there were two inflated last minute bids for it. I often wonder if the person ever got the £1000.

Doug

Nicholas Farr10/02/2013 14:17:29
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3415 forum posts
1590 photos

Hi, I believe the private listing is to help buyers identity from others to protect them from making their location more difficult to be revealed, thus cutting down the likelihood of being potentially burgled or hounded to resell.

As far as "Shill bidding" is concerned, this **LINK** may ease your mind a little, if you care to trust ebay's word.

I agree with JS first post, exactly what I've always done once I got my head around losing out on bids. Not that I've bidded on much lately, usually go for BIN's more oten that not, as been said most of the bargains have gone now is such a well known site.

Regards Nick.

Chris Trice10/02/2013 14:39:44
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1375 forum posts
10 photos

In brief Steve, you can't bid against yourself. If you're at all concerned that the seller is arranging for another account to bump up the price, just hold off putting your best offer in until last thing.

EBay doesn't set prices. Buyers do. eBay simply reflects the free market. It's one of the great indicators of somethings true worth and not what a seller tells you it's worth.

Stub Mandrel10/02/2013 15:39:12
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4315 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles

Ebay is fine as long as you have the discipline to only bid what you feel is a fair price.

It works best when it is a common item and you are not too fussy about condition or exact specification.

I got a significant quantity of 00-gauge track and rolling stock (and a small loco) for £90 by only bidding for things that were going cheap. Lots of open trucks going for a couple of pounds, especially if tatty - although I got a couple of smart ones too. Often you notice something with two people after it go for a silly price, when a similar item passes unoticed a few minutes later.

On the other hand it took me weeks to get the Hameg oscilloscope I wanted at a good price.

Neil

Steve Withnell10/02/2013 17:56:06
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848 forum posts
215 photos

Thanks for the useful responses, the guy that got fined for shill bidding on a pasty warmer made me grin.

I must admit I hadn't realised it was an illegal practice, as opposed to a dodgy one.

Steve

Cornish Jack10/02/2013 21:38:21
1219 forum posts
171 photos

"Hi, I believe the private listing is to help buyers identity from others to protect them from making their location more difficult to be revealed, thus cutting down the likelihood of being potentially burgled or hounded to resell."

Sorry Nick, but I'm afraid that is nonsensical. There is nothing in normal user name listing which would allow access, either on-line or actual. All private listing does is hide the identity of the bidder in order to allow shill bidding. An indicated bidder identity of e.g. a***n (33) which is the usual format contains nothing of use to the 'baddies'.

As for trusting Ebay to look after buyer's interest - to quote LBSC ... "Nuf sed"

Rgds

Bill

Ian P11/02/2013 14:48:41
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2594 forum posts
114 photos
Posted by David Clark 1 on 10/02/2013 13:49:09:

Hi There

I have found hammersnipe very good. I rarely buy from Ebay anymore.
Unless it is a common item, I will often pay over the odds because I only want the one item.

If it is common, I will wait for another to come along.

There is another way to find out someones bid with a fair degree of accuracy.

Bid upwards in the auction increments but try to keep the bid just below the round amount.

So, if someone has bid say $17 and the increments are 50 cents, bid $17 and 90 cents.

Then, when the other persons bid is less than the auction increment, you know what they have bid so if you bid the $17 and 90 cents, and the auction goes to $18 you know this is the other bidders final bid but Ebay does not email them that they have been out bid and warn them.

This usually works but occasionally you might bid more than the other bidder.

regards David

 

David

Are you trying to confuse us poor forum members?

Apart from saying you 'rarely' buy on eBay and then 'often' pay over the odds in the same sentence, you quote prices in USD. Since this is a UK based furum and you living in the UK is there some special reason for muddying the waters?

Ian

 

 

Edited By Ian Phillips on 11/02/2013 14:49:11

Edited By Ian Phillips on 11/02/2013 14:49:30

Edited By Ian Phillips on 11/02/2013 14:49:55

David Clark 111/02/2013 15:09:44
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3357 forum posts
112 photos
10 articles

Hi There

I have spent many thousands of pounds on Ebay.

I rarely buy any more as there is nothing I really need.

$ or £ is imaterial to the method I suggested.

No different to imperial or metric.

regards david

Ian P11/02/2013 15:38:17
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2594 forum posts
114 photos

David

I don't doubt you have spent plenty on eBay, I was just curious why you threw in the USDs. All the previous messages in the topic had been in Pounds and (I think) all the contributors were in the UK.

Saying its the same as Metric, Imperial is opening up another can of worms as its frequently been quite a controversal subject here.

Writing '$17 and 90 cents' is a bit like showing metric dimensions as fractions too.

Ian

David Clark 111/02/2013 15:50:12
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3357 forum posts
112 photos
10 articles

OK

£17 and 90 pence.

I have long used mm and inches side by side as model railways were often in 4mm to 1 foot.

I sell on Ebay in both £ and $ as well.

regards David

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