By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Forum House Ad Zone

Quorn or Vertex cutter grinder ?

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
chris j05/11/2012 13:40:15
338 forum posts
17 photos
As per the title.
What would you pick ?
Basically what should I pick is what I'm after.
I'm thinking of sharpening some milling cutters & twistdrills (HSS)
Thanks
David Littlewood05/11/2012 14:24:52
533 forum posts

Chris,

As another alternative, you should consider looking for a decent second hand T&C grinder such as a Clarkson; you can often find them at a price which is lower than the alternatives you mentioned. Also, be aware that without add-ons many T&C grinders will not sharpen twist drills in the conventional manner - though they can usually do them using the 4-facet method, which has advantages anyway.

David

Clive Foster05/11/2012 15:01:19
3135 forum posts
109 photos

Chris

If you only need to do twist drills and the ends of end-mills and slot drills both are probably overkill. I believe the Vertex device you mention is a variant on the Deckel design and thus primarily laid out for engraving cutters although it does have lathe tool, drill and end-mill sharpening capability with the correct accessories. The Quorn is a do-almost-anything-that-can-be-mounted device designed to be within the construction capabilities of the skilled home worker. As with all versatile devices setting up and manipulation procedures need to be mastered before reliable results can be got. This can prove complex and, probably, regular practice is needed to keep your skills sharp. I suspect most Quorn kits are completed more as an apprentice piece to demonstrate that the builder is now a properly skilled worker than for a real need.

For more basic requirements the simple swing-across-a-wheel twist drill sharpeners, e.g. Picador et al, give very acceptable results once you have got your head around coping with the inevitable geometrical infelicities. Doesn't help that there are two distinct breeds with differing set-ups. Especially when some of the low end imports come with the wrong instructions! Things go much better using a narrow cup wheel rather than the side of a conventional wheel. The Atlas style which works off the face of the wheel is far superior, but was rather more expensive when on the market, and essentially never made it out of America. Despite being 'orribly plastic the one in the Plasplugs set works pretty well too. Martek, Drill-Doctor and the various poke-it-in-a-hole-at-an-angle-to-the-wheel types are notorious for some good / some bad results with no apparent rhyme or reason.

For sharpening end-mills devices working on the same principles as the Stevenson's ER 32 Sharpening Fixture sold by ArcEuroTrade http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Collet-Fixtures should be adequate for most home users. That particular one requires a surface grinder but there have been various home user friendly designs published which use a standard grinder. The "Cannon" one published in either ME or MEW around 2000 (?) is probably the simplest and looked as if it should work.

If you fancy building a versatile device the Brooks (almost a Quorn Lite) design published way back in the early days of MEW looks to be a decent balance between function and build simplicity.

Regrettably the home worker is ill served by sharpening devices. Typically the choice is between too complex / too expensive / or too simple and needs too much practice. I feel that something combining TipLap style operation at a few fixed angles for lathe tools with Stevenson's style operation for 4 facet drill and end-mill sharpening would be more appropriate in function and cost. Interlocking finger Vee blocks are an entirely adequate alternative to collets for holding round shanks. Proper attention needs to be paid to repeatable tool positioning and projection via screws and stops. Setting to scales or card templates is not acceptable, nor is rotating the tool to the next flute, despite the prevalence of such methods in existing practice.

Clive

Douglas Johnston05/11/2012 15:33:36
avatar
767 forum posts
34 photos

I have just been sharpening some endmills on a Quorn that I have just finished building (bought the castings 20 years ago!) and it does the job very well ,but would I do it again?, I don't think so. I'm not saying it takes 20 years to build, many other things got in the way in between long spells when no work was done on it, but there is a fair amount of work involved.

If I was starting now I would probably build a simpler design which is all you need for drills and endmills and get a working machine in a reasonable time. Quorns do crop up on fleabay but I would be very wary of buying one unseen since build quality is important if the machine is to work well.

I have been using grindstones I bought with the castings but notice diamond wheels are now available. Are diamond wheels good for the likes of a Quorn?

Doug

chris j05/11/2012 16:20:16
338 forum posts
17 photos
Clive
I love the Stevenson's ER 32 Sharpening Fixture, trouble is I don't have a surface grinder...yet.
Maybe one day.
Maybe I'll just keep my wallet closed and do what my buddy Charlie suggests. He thinks at our age and with his stock levels we should blunt them and chuck them. That said he probably has more cutters than most small stores.
Thanks for you comments guys.
chris j05/11/2012 16:22:36
338 forum posts
17 photos
Can anyone else see the yellow background to my posts?
Since it has appeared if I click into the body of a post to say add a word I am likely to loose the first sentance Grr.
Andyf05/11/2012 17:13:11
392 forum posts

There I was, thinking you had found a neat way of using mellow yellow to show yourself as the originator of the thread. Now it turns out that you've got jaundice. Your message of 16:20 is part yellow, part normal grey.

The lost first sentence seems odd. Until someone comes up with a better idea, use a dummy sentence like "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog", and paste it in a few times so they are deleted one by one as you amend your post. Then click into the body of the post a few times to get rid of any remaining quick brown foxes.

Andy

chris j07/11/2012 13:46:51
338 forum posts
17 photos
Posted by Andyf on 05/11/2012 17:13:11:

There I was, thinking you had found a neat way of using mellow yellow to show yourself as the originator of the thread. Now it turns out that you've got jaundice. Your message of 16:20 is part yellow, part normal grey.

The lost first sentence seems odd. Until someone comes up with a better idea, use a dummy sentence like "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog", and paste it in a few times so they are deleted one by one as you amend your post. Then click into the body of the post a few times to get rid of any remaining quick brown foxes.

Andy

You obviously have no idea how long it would take an old duffer like me to type The Quick etc etc. smiley

David Littlewood07/11/2012 14:26:09
533 forum posts

Doug,

I have several diamond wheels, bought from Arc Euro Trade. They are excellent for sharpening tungsten carbide - vastly better than the old green grit wheels - and are very reasonably priced. I recommend you try the cup or dish types for most tool sharpening, they have a flat face.

David

Bazyle07/11/2012 17:19:42
avatar
6324 forum posts
222 photos

A simpler alternative to the Quorn is this one I saw at a show but I think its label is wrong so google Colyer.

pdc_0255 c&c cutter grinder.jpg

Even simpler is a Tinker. Have a look at one and simplify it. Then simplify it some more and remove most of the awkward slots and adjustments and you end up with something quite straightforward.

Trevor Drabble07/11/2012 23:45:43
avatar
281 forum posts
5 photos

Chris,

Have you had a look at Harold Halls design for use with a D.E. grinder? If not, its relatively quick and easy to make as well able to do all you are asking.

Trevo.r

Douglas Johnston08/11/2012 09:16:17
avatar
767 forum posts
34 photos

David,

The Arc diamond wheels look very nice, can you advise me on the following points:-

(1) Do you use them for HSS as well as carbide as I have seen people saying not to use them on HSS.

(2 ) Do the diamond wheels need dressing like the stone ones and if so what is used for this.

(3) Do they give a better surface finish than the normal medium (60 grit) stone wheels.

Doug

chris j08/11/2012 20:15:21
338 forum posts
17 photos
Posted by Trevor Drabble on 07/11/2012 23:45:43:

Chris,

Have you had a look at Harold Halls design for use with a D.E. grinder? If not, its relatively quick and easy to make as well able to do all you are asking.

Trevo.r

Funnily enough I have seen it & have the plans (can't remember where from dooh).

I like the later version with the magnetic bases.

Looking at the price of the Quorn & Vertex I think I will give Harolds a go.

David Littlewood08/11/2012 20:27:41
533 forum posts

Doug,

(1) No, I have only used it for carbide, though I might use in on HSS if it happened to be on the grinder if I needed to do a light-ish job.

(2) No, at least I have not found it necessary with the cup wheel I have used, provided you take care to get it as accurately centred on the spindle as you can.

(3) I have not done a detailed comparison, but I would say it is comparable to the finish from a fine alumina wheel.

David

Trevor Drabble08/11/2012 20:30:52
avatar
281 forum posts
5 photos

Chris,

Harold has a web page **LINK** . If you then look at his books list you will find his book Tool and Cutter Sharpening which is No 38 in the WPS grouping and has all the neccessary information. Hope you will find this info of use.

Trevor.

chris j08/11/2012 20:33:30
338 forum posts
17 photos
Posted by Trevor Drabble on 08/11/2012 20:30:52:

Chris,

Harold has a web page **LINK** . If you then look at his books list you will find his book Tool and Cutter Sharpening which is No 38 in the WPS grouping and has all the neccessary information. Hope you will find this info of use.

Trevor.

Ah yes, thanks for the aide memoir, I am slowly loosing my marbles smiley

Clive Hartland08/11/2012 20:39:24
avatar
2820 forum posts
40 photos

The Vertex tool grinder I believe is limited to 10mm dia. cutter shanks, the indexing of the cutters is not that good and from my own experience from using one found that the maintanance of the cutting lips quite hard to do. You cannot clamp and sharpen lathe tools on it and the wheel turns only in one direction. It is also an expensive machine to sharpen just 10mm shank cutters. It is basically an Engraving tool grinder, the other options are a compromise ! The size of the diamond wheel makes it expensive.

The Quorn, I have seen one in use and I did start to make one and the bits are still sitting in a box somewhere. I eventually decided it was not for me and a couple years back bought and made a Worden Tool and Cutter grinder which has a good capacity (18mm)and does the job OK. I can even do 3 flute cutters and the only drawback is the limited angle it will work at of 30deg when doing secondary clearance angles as it puts the tool high on the wheel. There is a mod. to allow the motor to rise and fall.. It will also do about 5deg Negative angle but not sure if that has an application. Also the table levelling is a bit crude. It has the option to fit a White wheel or diamond one. The motor can be switched to run in both directions and lathe tools are easy with the jig. I am, at the moment trying to make a jig to sharpen Planer blades. Slitting saws can be sharpened with a small jig, also small drills with 4 facet option.

The Worden is just one of the options available unless you want a Clarkson cutter grinder. There seems to be a few special to task cutter grinders on the market but few that will do all the cutters an engineer might need.

Clive

david newman 908/11/2012 20:44:16
47 forum posts

I built a Tinker some years ago mostly out of my scrap box and it does everything I need on end mills

can sharpen an endmill in minutes to a very acceptable degree and so simple to use,. Wouldn't be without it a super bit of kit.

Douglas Johnston09/11/2012 10:46:26
avatar
767 forum posts
34 photos

Thanks for your reply David, I will give a diamond wheel a try and see how it performs.

Doug

Terryd09/11/2012 14:58:54
avatar
1936 forum posts
179 photos

Hi Chris,

more food for thought, Harolds book is here for a good price (new). I have built the HH model and it is quite good but I intend to build the Brooks - Stent, which was serialised in MEW numbers 16 and 17 or thereabouts, as a project. There is a build here.

Terry

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
Eccentric July 5 2018
cowells
Dreweatts
Rapid RC
Eccentric Engineering
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest