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blowlamp19/10/2012 10:27:54
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Posted by Tony Jeffree on 19/10/2012 09:45:31:
Posted by MAC on 18/10/2012 23:46:05:

Good God Tony, you don't honestly think I was comparing ME articles to programmes on our beloved gem, the BBC, do you!? Your sermon suggests such!

Mac -

... If you intended to convey something different, you might try using different words in a different order.

Regards,

Tony

Edited By Tony Jeffree on 19/10/2012 09:49:24

Reminds me of Morecambe & Wise, "I'm playing all the right notes - but not necessarily in the right order". Very funny.

Martin.

Andrew Johnston19/10/2012 10:41:20
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I'll second Lampton's analysis, it's a well argued and fair statement.

However, I would take slight issue with the point on spelling and grammar. I agree that everybody makes the occasional error. But it is rather sad that some posts on this forum are so littered with errors as to render the post unreadable.

It's strange that errors in an engineering drawing seem to attract opprobium on this forum, but errors in the written word are seen as acceptable. Both are methods of communication, and if either are littered with errors then it is likely that the message will be lost.

Regards,

Andrew

Lambton19/10/2012 11:00:38
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I urge all persons using the forum to click on the ABC spell checker and select Enable SCAYT before writing their posting. It is in the top tool bar just to the left of centre.

Doing this gets rid of most of the spelling an other errors.

NJH19/10/2012 11:06:05
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Hey Martin

Reminds me of Morecambe & Wise, "I'm playing all the right notes - but not necessarily in the right order".

This was brought home to me quite forcibly recently.

I've always had a desire to play the piano so I decided that, at my advanced age, I'd better do something about it before it is too late so I enrolled for some lessons. I can assure you that "All the right notes - but not necessarily in the right order" is a pretty good description - although I also include a few of the wrong notes! Let me tell you - it 'aint funny!

Norman

Terryd19/10/2012 11:30:20
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Posted by Lambton on 19/10/2012 11:00:38:

I urge all persons using the forum to click on the ABC spell checker and select Enable SCAYT before writing their posting. It is in the top tool bar just to the left of centre.

Doing this gets rid of most of the spelling an other errors.

 

To follow your comment Mr L - and this is not a criticism of what you wrote - There is a difference between the odd typo which we all make from time to time and habitual bad spelling and grammar. For some typo happens occasionally , for others (a minority) bad spelling happens all the time. One of the most blaring typos I cam across was in the corporate letter heading of a famous insurance company, the name which was on all the letters sent out, was, 'The Pudential'. It was not until I pointed it out to them that they noticed. I would have thought that the intelligent folk who use this site are able to make the distinction between bad spelling/grammar and typos.

As for a spell checker, don't trust them implicitly. To misquote that old joke:

I halve a spelling Chequer,

it came with my pea sea...........

........Eye am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

wink 2

As for the article, if the lad has a generous dad that's his good fortune and if he starts a business so be it, most successful businesses are started by folk who had a privileged youth, the right school, a rich dad etc helps enormously. Comparatively few start from a poor background. However one workshop is not a celebration for the future of our hobby as several have maintained, one lucky/privileged young man will not a hobby make. If the facilities were there for many, rather than one it could make a difference, e.g. in a school, or youth activity centre.

Personally I thought the article was a waste of space. I didn't need the best part of a page to tell me how to negotiate a move for a large miling machine, if he had done it himself with tube rollers or skates and crowbars that would be interesting, but no, the wallet came out. I would rather the space be allocated to more interesting stuff.  If not articles on models, then a bit of engineering history, or more museum visits, I would rather see how a great Engineer (such as Maudslay or Whitworth) affected our future rather than a vainglorious self promotion.

That is simply my personal position as a paying customer of the magazine.

Regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 19/10/2012 11:36:04

Tony Jeffree19/10/2012 11:35:02
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Posted by Lambton on 19/10/2012 11:00:38:

I urge all persons using the forum to click on the ABC spell checker and select Enable SCAYT before writing their posting. It is in the top tool bar just to the left of centre.

Doing this gets rid of most of the spelling an other errors.

 

I wander if that is the reel solution to the problem - the spelling of all of these worms seams to be perfectly grate to me...wink

It failed to fix the "an" in your last sentence for example...

Regards,

Tony

Edited By Tony Jeffree on 19/10/2012 11:35:28

Edited By Tony Jeffree on 19/10/2012 11:36:05

Cornish Jack19/10/2012 11:41:01
1190 forum posts
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I note that Mr Jeffree propagates the same nonsense that many others do - viz. one pays for the Beeb but the commercial channels are "FREE"

What a terrible load of tosh - it may have passed his notice that what passes for independent programming is CONSTANTLY interrupted by prolonged repetitive rubbish attempting to inveigle the watcher to purchase yet more unnecessary 'things' or 'goods'!!

Perhaps he would care to enlighten us as to how he believes this invasive claptrap is financed??? One might hazard a guess that the various advertisers extract the cost FROM THEIR CUSTOMERS via the purchase price. Could, of course, be that the generous and open-hearted owners, directors, shareholders, whatever, pay for them out of their own pockets! Which, do you feel, is the likeliest option? Still, Beeb-bashing is a jolly good sport and one shouldn't let the facts get in the way of a populist rant.

Ther IS a choice as regards paying the licence fee - if it offends you, don't watch TV. Heaven knows there are enough intelligent alternatives available nowadays. If, however, you consider value against 'goods' received, just one season of the Proms does it quite nicely for me, thank you.

Rgds

Bill

Tony Jeffree19/10/2012 11:51:24
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Posted by Cornish Jack on 19/10/2012 11:41:01:

I note that Mr Jeffree propagates the same nonsense that many others do - viz. one pays for the Beeb but the commercial channels are "FREE"

Mr Jack -

Don't put your words in my mouth.

I said nothing of the kind. I have made absolutely no observations whatever on how the other TV channels are funded, and frankly, it is an insult to my intelligence (and everyone else's for that matter) for you to imply that I am dumb enough not to figure out how the other TV channels make their money.

Regards,

Tony

Lambton19/10/2012 12:05:43
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Tony,

"I wander if that is the reel solution to the problem - the spelling of all of these words seams to be perfectly good to me...wink>>

It failed to fix the "an" in your last sentence for example..."

>>

I was just trying to be helpful - not clever!

I think it is time for everyone to stop the sniping at others and concentrate on making meaningful contributions.

Cornish Jack19/10/2012 13:36:08
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IF I misunderstood what was written, then an apology is due and unequivocally offered. However, given this quote ...

"Actually it's worse than that. If I get a TV with the intent of watching everything else that is broadcast OTHER than by BBC, I STILL have to pay the license fee that supports the BBC.(my editing) That is like having to pay a sub to EIM just so I can read (and pay for) MEW." ...

I have considerable difficulty in translating that into other than a rant at the licence fee. Maybe, in addition to a spoil chickenwinkthe forum needs a device to generate "What the general really meant to say was ..."

Rgds (and no further input)

Bill

Tony Jeffree19/10/2012 13:56:11
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Posted by Cornish Jack on 19/10/2012 13:36:08:

IF I misunderstood what was written, then an apology is due and unequivocally offered. However, given this quote ...

"Actually it's worse than that. If I get a TV with the intent of watching everything else that is broadcast OTHER than by BBC, I STILL have to pay the license fee that supports the BBC.(my editing) That is like having to pay a sub to EIM just so I can read (and pay for) MEW." ...

I have considerable difficulty in translating that into other than a rant at the licence fee. Maybe, in addition to a spoil chickenwinkthe forum needs a device to generate "What the general really meant to say was ..."

You know Jack. that was the most equivocal apology that I have read in a long time.

You did misunderstand. I just said so.

So on top of delivering one lot of undeserved personal attacks, you compound that with an "apology" that, reading between the lines, says "I don't believe you".

Words fail me.

Terryd19/10/2012 16:53:51
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Posted by Lambton on 19/10/2012 09:11:27:

Having read all the posts to date I have now read the article in question.

I think it is excellent and do not like to see my fellow model engineers carping and sniping at others who have the drive and ability to do things differently to themselves.

......................................

Finally I am very disappointed with some of the unkind and unnecessary remarks made by my fellow model engineers about this particular article and its author. I also do not like the nit picking concerning minor spelling & punctuation mistakes made by other contributors to this thread. We all make such mistakes from time to time.

( I have absolutely no connexion with the author of this article or his son).

Hi Mr L, (pity you don't give us a name)

I have no disagreements about your 'analysis' of the article, but most contributors to this thread are complaining that it is an unsuitable subject for a full six page inclusion in a magazine, where perhaps there are other subjects we would like to read about other than cheque book modelling, as it has been described by others.

However I do disagree about spelling and punctuation not to mention grammar. They have been established to aid communication. If you don't agree try reading Ulysses by James Joyce, not many finish it.  Of course no one bothers about the odd mistake or typo here or there or the odd apostrophe missed or added needlessly but some postings are riddled with awful spelling, atrocious punctuation and terrible grammar. So bad as to not be understandable without a great deal of effort. My grammar is not perfect but I usually put a good deal of thought into a message before posting. I try to keep my text readable by using reasonable punctuation, I check spellings I'm unsure about (admittedly the odd typo worms it's way in at times) and use a spell checker, but they are not always reliable. Most folks prefer to have things pointed out constructively rather than continually embarrassing themselves, a bit like having your flies open, i.e. constructive criticism.

If you don't like it, that's your right. But your personal likes and dislikes are of little concern to me.

Best Regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 19/10/2012 16:55:47

NJH19/10/2012 16:55:42
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2314 forum posts
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To get back to the substance of the thread...

I have now returned from my local newsagent and read the "offending" article in full. I really enjoyed it and certainly didn't find it too long. OK it's different from the usual contributions but I find it an inspirational tale which made me laugh in places. How nice to hear of an enthusiastic youngster supported by his parents and encouraged to persue his interests. I am able to empathise with Clive - I have three kids (well a good bit more than kids now!) - and I recognise the enthusiasms and assurance of the young that drags we Dads into all sorts of uncharted areas. ( For example one of mine was a swimmer and so Dad "became" a qualified Official, Teacher and Coach - getting up at 6am on winter mornings - in support of those activities!)

Alistair is a lucky lad to have this support and encouragement from his family. They in turn should enjoy and value this time spent with him as they watch him develop and expand his knowledge and interests. I do note that the chest of drawers in his bedroom has been " made redundant when his bedroom was remodelled into the current passion parlour " !! - so make the most of this time with him before "life" with all it's trials and responsibilities takes over.

Regards

Norman

Edited By NJH on 19/10/2012 17:00:33

joegib19/10/2012 17:22:06
154 forum posts
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wrong.jpg

Edited By joegib on 19/10/2012 17:22:51

Edited By joegib on 19/10/2012 17:23:47

Edited By joegib on 19/10/2012 17:26:54

Lambton19/10/2012 17:25:01
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Terry,

"I also do not like the nit picking concerning minor spelling & punctuation mistakes made by other contributors to this thread. We all make such mistakes from time to time".

Please read this bit again and notice my use of the word "minor". I fully agree with your views about gross spelling mistakes and bad grammar. Being 70 years old I was bought up to write correctly as possible and to use a dictionary if I was unsure of spelling. Nowadays spell checkers are used and are useful but they can sometimes mislead particularly if the word is spelled correctly but is the wrong word for the particular context.

"If you don't like it, that's your right. But your personal likes and dislikes are of little concern to me"

This comment is a little rude and is quite unnecessary.

dcosta19/10/2012 17:30:33
493 forum posts
207 photos

Hello Terry.

Please see the profile of the Mr. L and you'll know that the name of the gentleman is E Clark.

Not being as fluent as you are in your mother tongue I can only second you (if you allow me...), making your words mine, in the question of the frequently badly written English in this forum.
Foreign participants in the forum, like me, somewhere along their life made a great effort to learn English in school and then, when that knowledge could be of some utility to them, the people who should be the keepers of that language do not use it correctly as they should...

Best regards
Dias Costa

Terryd19/10/2012 17:30:48
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1935 forum posts
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Posted by Lambton on 19/10/2012 17:25:01:

"If you don't like it, that's your right. But your personal likes and dislikes are of little concern to me"

This comment is a little rude and is quite unnecessary.

Not meant to be rude, just a statement of fact, sorry if you took it badly.

Hi joegib,

Glad someone else appreciates WKCD,

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 19/10/2012 17:32:12

John Stevenson19/10/2012 19:19:59
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Moderator
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Well thanks a loy giys, you have finally pìssed that youg lad off and he don't want to buy my knocked off BOC bottles now.

Any other takers ?

Spel cheked with my lasted serbo croat dictionary.

John S.

Stub Mandrel19/10/2012 21:50:47
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I am very sad that this has generated so much heat and so little light.

I am particularly sad that many people I enjoy exchanging disssion with are sniping at each other.

One comment I WILL make - good spelling and grammar don't make a good model engineer. Even Shakespeare had terrible (or at least deeply inconsistent) spelling. I have several dyslexics in my family, employ one and know others. All of them are bright and able in the the fields they have chosen to pursue. None of them would be able to produce postings on here to the standard which seems to be wanted, spile chuckers or not.

Neil

P.S. thos who repeatedly complain about Lambton's anonymity (here and elsewhere) should note that he HAS posted both his first and last names. But perhaps he now has a better understanding of why some use psuedonyms!

Terryd19/10/2012 22:56:49
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Posted by Stub Mandrel on 19/10/2012 21:50:47:

I am very sad that this has generated so much heat and so little light.

I am particularly sad that many people I enjoy exchanging disssion with are sniping at each other.

One comment I WILL make - good spelling and grammar don't make a good model engineer. Even Shakespeare had terrible (or at least deeply inconsistent) spelling. I have several dyslexics in my family, employ one and know others. All of them are bright and able in the the fields they have chosen to pursue. None of them would be able to produce postings on here to the standard which seems to be wanted, spile chuckers or not.

Neil

 

P.S. thos who repeatedly complain about Lambton's anonymity (here and elsewhere) should note that he HAS posted both his first and last names. But perhaps he now has a better understanding of why some use psuedonyms!

 

Hi Neil,

That argument is spurious, Shakespeare lived in a time when there was no standards and no dictionaries, at a time when the English language was in a great state of flux and change. He also made many words up in his works as did other writers. However his writings were not intended for general publication but for actors and theatre managers etc. The general population were illiterate there was no mass communication such as we have. He was not publishing for mass consumption.

I also know several excellent Engineers who are dyslexic but who would not publish works without checking with others. If you are to communicate to a wide audience standards are important, take the case of our complaints about Chinglish which are often heard here and elsewhere. Do you excuse the mistakes which may occur there? Do you accept such errors on drawings? I think not.

get-attachment.jpg

teeth 2

Best regards

T

PS Lambton changed his name on his thread about 'non(sic) de plumes' after posting under his own name.  the name  suddenly changed.  I'm never afraid to sign my postings controversial or otherwise and I'm not far off his age smile p.  I think his first name was Eric but I might be mistaken as my memory is not so good these days crook

T

Edited By Terryd on 19/10/2012 23:01:25

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