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Self adulation

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Ady117/10/2012 23:39:13
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But there is a better way to encourage them rathere than rub ordinery kids knose in it, to what they could have if daddy was well of etc, etc, etc

---

At the end of the day it's going to be down to the individual

I'm reading the Dan Calkin and his Elfs book at the moment and it's obvious he had a silver spoon in his mouth but at the end of the day he did do some amazing stuff

Other guys with almost nowt also do amazing things

Money does make it easier to get going in ME but nowadays we have the great equaliser, the Internet

The net has changed everything and now you can learn almost anything and you can buy almost anything cheap (my elfs book cost 18 quid)

The swarf will dig into a rich boys fingers just as much as it will to a less well off individual

The information education and kit you need is only a mouseclick away

Most importantly:

You still have to LEARN to use the gear

Ady117/10/2012 23:48:18
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If I'd been well off I would have bought a new import instead of a knackered Drummond M series

Now I wouldn't touch a new bit of kit with a pole, I love using the old stuff that other people consider obsolete etc

He'll never have that pleasure because everything will be top dollar spanky new

Cyril Bonnett17/10/2012 23:58:28
243 forum posts
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It was the length of the article that astounded me more than anything, I can only surmise that the editor is running out of short articles and used this as a page filler.

Prehaps some detective work by the editor and his staff on some of the engines that have featured in past editions of ME telling how they have survived the ravages of time and and the problems encountered during their long lives would be a good start for some short articles.

Ady118/10/2012 00:02:27
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It was the length of the article that astounded me

6 pages does sound a bit major, like it was a filler upper article

Martin W18/10/2012 00:07:33
864 forum posts
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Well put Ady, money can't buy one skill it has to be learnt and there is only one way clock practice and more practice.

Cheers

Martin

Andyf18/10/2012 00:17:50
392 forum posts

I don't really see what the fuss is about. I buy The Times every day, but don't read half of it, and half of what I do read would make me a bit cross if I was of a less phlegmatic disposition. The crossword suits me, though.

In the main, hobby magazines rely on their readers for copy. If subscribers don't like what' they read, they can always submit their own articles.

Andy

MAC18/10/2012 00:27:57
68 forum posts
Posted by Andyf on 18/10/2012 00:17:50:

I don't really see what the fuss is about. I buy The Times every day, but don't read half of it, and half of what I do read would make me a bit cross if I was of a less phlegmatic disposition. The crossword suits me, though.

In the main, hobby magazines rely on their readers for copy. If subscribers don't like what' they read, they can always submit their own articles.

Andy

 

I'm sorry but that's rubbish. When you pay for something, you are entitled to complain about it.

 

Just take the BBC. If you saw something on there you felt miffed at, yes you can switch to BBC2 - or you could complain/comment, quite within your rights. How would you feel if the BBC's reply was "make your own film and send it to us"?

 

That's a really crazy argument.

Edited By MAC on 18/10/2012 00:28:35

NJH18/10/2012 00:29:43
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Ady

Same hobby - different folk get different pleasures from it and have different amounts of cash and time to devote to it. I bet you do get a lot of pleasure from your kit - I know I do from mine. I started out with a very old and worn Myford ML4 and, over the years, as circumstances and surplus cash allowed I have " progressed ". The amount of fun was as much with the old stuff as it is now with much better gear. If ever I have unlimited funds I do have a "wish list" of exotic machinery but I doubt it would be any more fun.

David - one positive from this thread that started in such a negative way - I will go out tomorrow and buy a copy of ME so that I can read the article.!

Jason - thanks for the link to the Traction Talk forum. Whilst I'm extremely unlikely ever to build a Traction engine I have signed up as I see there is much of interest there.

Norman

Ady118/10/2012 00:34:10
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At the end of the day you've got to be a certain breed of nutter to do this stuff

You can take a horse to water... but you can't make it drink

After I got my Drummond home I then spent the following evening lugging about a quarter of a ton of cast iron up to my chosen "workshop"

I'm no spring chicken and as I stood there puffing and observing this big pile of metal I had just hoofed up the stairs I suddenly had what can be described as a crisis

As I stood staring at this huge pile of scrap I genuinely believed that I might just be a bit of a headcase. No NORMAL person would do this!

Took me about a day to get over it, I've never had a crisis before

You don't have to be mad to do this stuff, but it sure does help

Gone Away18/10/2012 00:54:10
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Posted by MAC on 17/10/2012 22:19:34:

But he knew when he'd bought it! It's like saying my child is some 8 years old.

No doubt he did know but unless it was precisely three years to the day (unlikely), it's quite legitimate to say "approximately three years" (or "some three years"  ). Better than something like "2 years, 11 months 1-1/2 days" which is stuffy and over-precise.

Likewise, your child. (Of course if your child is 8 years old today, happy birthday to him/her smiley )

Edited By Sid Herbage on 18/10/2012 00:54:52

John Stevenson18/10/2012 00:59:07
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Leave the lad alone, he's trying really hard and I'm just about to flog him a set of knocked off BOC bottles for his boiler making.

Can't make an honest farthing no how with you lot of whinging flat earthers wink

John S.

David Clark 118/10/2012 08:21:22
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Hi Ady 1

We don't use filler up articles.

The Waggon article the lad did was so good they republished it in Engineering in Miniature.

regards David

blowlamp18/10/2012 08:37:04
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1473 forum posts
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And so we go from Self Adulation to Self Flagellation.

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 18/10/2012 08:39:42

John Stevenson18/10/2012 08:46:41
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Posted by blowlamp on 18/10/2012 08:37:04:

And so we go from Self Adulation to Self Flagellation.

Martin.

.

I think we had better stop there or Diane is going get get left out wink

John S.

Diane Carney18/10/2012 09:03:51
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Posted by Ady1 on 17/10/2012 23:48:18:

He'll never have that pleasure because everything will be top dollar spanky new

Was the acquired milling machine - which was probably the reason for his dad sitting down to write the article in the first place - brand new? I'm pretty sure it was a 'lucky find'. Yes, he worked and saved up for a new lathe and yes, he probably got some help with it. He's a lucky lad but he certainly seems to be one who appreciates what he's got!

colin hawes18/10/2012 09:50:36
522 forum posts
18 photos

Having used machinery dated from c1890 to todays date including CNC and treadle lathes I feel no envy for anyone who has all the most expensive modern equipment but get great pleasure in using my old machinesand see no advantage in buying new, often noisier, machines.It's the end result that counts.It's supposed to be a hobby not a production shop!

Laurence B18/10/2012 10:28:51
58 forum posts
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 17/10/2012 16:58:20:

Dear oh dear, what a lot of curmudgeons.

Andrew

I think Andrew Johnson is quite right here,this isn't about the number of pages devoted to the subject,these complaints look like the politics of envy.

O.K., so Clive Cook and his son don't seem to be short of a bob or two.So what?Good luck to them.

The editor is right when he says youngsters need all the encouragement they can get,as it seems very few youngsters seem all that interested in the hobby.

And the editor relies on submissions made by model engineers.So maybe those complaining about this atricle should put pen to paper themselves-if they think they could do better!

Finally,I thought the article was very interesting.

JasonB18/10/2012 10:31:42
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Posted by NJH on 18/10/2012 00:29:43:

Jason - thanks for the link to the Traction Talk forum. Whilst I'm extremely unlikely ever to build a Traction engine I have signed up as I see there is much of interest there.

Norman

Yes there is plenty to read through there, make sure you go to the Model Engines section, the build diaries there all make for good reading particularly some of the 6" builds. Infact there are several "lads" at college or uni who are making 4" to 6" engines, I also suspect a fit 17-19year old would be as capable if not more so of managing the work on his own that a 70year old. There are even ladies making 6" GMTs, what would Bob think of thatwink 2

As for all this talk of new machines, as far as I could tell the only bit of new machinery was the lathe, everything else mentioned was at least second hand.

As I said on TT the article was probably a bit long winded and maybe more suited to MEW but at least the six pages would have generated 10% of the budgetnerd

J

Andrew Johnston18/10/2012 11:24:34
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5841 forum posts
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Posted by Diane Carney on 18/10/2012 09:03:51:
Was the acquired milling machine - which was probably the reason for his dad sitting down to write the article in the first place - brand new?

I'd guarantee that the mill is at least secondhand. I'm not sure when Adcock & Shipley stopped making horizontal mills, but I'd guess in the 1980s. My Adcock & Shipley 'Bridgeport' manual shows a picture of a 2E looking a bit old fashioned; the manual is dated 1978.

I've had an A&S 2E for some years now; and it has proved to be a very useful machine. There's no substitute for rigidity and horsepower when it comes to metal removal rates; makes the Bridgeport look distinctly wishy-washy. I paid £150 for my 2E, from a dealer; a real bargain. Just because a machine tool is big and/or industrial doesn't mean it has to be expensive.

Regards,

Andrew

PS: I'd refute the comment by MAC on East Cambridgeshire, quite the reverse; but then I would say that as I live west of Cambridge! Despite the best efforts of the 'developers' Cambridgeshire is still quite a rural county.

Cornish Jack18/10/2012 11:33:10
1190 forum posts
163 photos

Bazyle - read through that correspondence just a couple of nights ago. Similar sort of furore and (I can't be bothered to buy a ME to check!) probably just about as relevant.

This is a HOBBY! ... just like Golf, Cart racing, Gliding etc., etc. Vast variations in costs involved - check parental input to the various teenage passions - horse riding et al. Likelihood of a continuing interest in ME by subject youth?? ... who knows and, frankly, who cares, other than those directly involved.

The young Appleyard(??) mentioned by Bazyle hasn't (as far as I know) featured heavily in the hobby recently so maybe yet another passing enthusiasm? Each to his/her own and "lots of dosh does not an engineer make" to paraphrase someone or other!!cheeky

Rgds

Bill

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